Bump steer

Vteccin_teg

Advanced Member
Messages
166
Hi guys, wondering if you could help me please.
Basically I get bad bump steer.
This is my current setup:
Mugen showa coilovers
Hardrace tie rod ends
Everything else is OEM
On my last MOT advisory was ball joint boots starting to perish.
So the predicament is, do I get raised ball joints like buddyclub/hardrace and inverted hardrace tie rod ends or oem ball joints and just the inverted tie rods, or a diffrent combination?
I've heard buddyclub/hardrace ball joints are quite weak compared to OEM?

What are ball joints like to replace do I need special tools?

I'm an auto electrition by trade, can do basic mechanical work but I'm more of an electrical guy.
Cheers guys much appreciated.
 

carl hammond

Advanced Member
Messages
3,737
Vteccin_teg said:
Hi guys, wondering if you could help me please.
Basically I get bad bump steer.
This is my current setup:
Mugen showa coilovers
Hardrace tie rod ends
Everything else is OEM
On my last MOT advisory was ball joint boots starting to perish.
When you say mugen showa coilovers are you talking about the normal optional extra mugen showa dampers that are a shorter than oem dampers with fixes dampening?

I‘ve never heard of anyone having bumpsteer using mugen showa shocks with their normal mugen springs or oem or spoon springs with the mugens.

When are you noticing it road or track and is it deff bumpsteer?
 

ste01

Advanced Member
Messages
918
DC5s bump steer, facelifts are improved over the PFL cars but they all do it on our crappy country roads
 

carl hammond

Advanced Member
Messages
3,737
ste01 said:
DC5s bump steer, facelifts are improved over the PFL cars but they all do it on our crappy country roads
Yet to feel it myself but that said mines hardly ever used on the road and when it is it‘s driven so slowly it‘s (as my girlfriend says) embarrassing 😳. The roads around here have gotten so bad I no longer enjoy driving them so we use her car all the time, I even hate having to drive mine too and from the track
 

Vteccin_teg

Advanced Member
Messages
166
Tbh I've no idea if they're optional.extra or not. I only imported car last year. It's got mugen showa sticker on the damper and its lower than standard suspension.
I've got a 55plate facelift.
Havnt taken it on track yet so bumpsteers on road.
When I look under wheel arch the tie rods are angled quite high up to reach the suspension struts, hence I thought the inverted tie rod ends would help?
 

carl hammond

Advanced Member
Messages
3,737
Vteccin_teg said:
Tbh I've no idea if they're optional.extra or not. I only imported car last year. It's got mugen showa sticker on the damper and its lower than standard suspension.
I've got a 55plate facelift.
Havnt taken it on track yet so bumpsteers on road.
When I look under wheel arch the tie rods are angled quite high up to reach the suspension struts, hence I thought the inverted tie rod ends would help?
Sound like the fixed dampening mugen showa shocks (hey are 15mm shorter than oem) and they were an optional extra (many have them) as did I

Look at my build thread and see when they were fitted as I ran them with oem everything aside from spoon springs and never encountered any issues both on the road or track.

Any pics you can provide may help more as mine was fine and literally oem suspension wise aside from the dampers and springs
 

Vteccin_teg

Advanced Member
Messages
166
Cheers mate thankyou.
Just looked at a few posts. Apparently the shower damper is suited to the spoon springs?
However, coming back to the subject.
Would oem ball joints with inverted tie rods or extended ball joints and inverted tie rods be better?
I cant afford new suspension atm.
 

Crackfox

Advanced Member
Messages
622
Vteccin_teg said:
Cheers mate thankyou.
Just looked at a few posts. Apparently the shower damper is suited to the spoon springs?
However, coming back to the subject.
Would oem ball joints with inverted tie rods or extended ball joints and inverted tie rods be better?
I cant afford new suspension atm.
I get similar. Big improvement since the Bilstiens went on, but I'm still convinced the steering arm angle is the culprit. The car is 20mm lower than the chasis was designed for, plus any additional lowering you add yourself.

When I get 5 in the summer I intend to do some measuring of the steering g arm angle with standard trackrod ends and hyperthetiacally with inverted ones. It's a big spend and I want to be sure it wont take them too far then other way.

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Vteccin_teg

Advanced Member
Messages
166
Crackfox said:
I get similar. Big improvement since the Bilstiens went on, but I'm still convinced the steering arm angle is the culprit. The car is 20mm lower than the chasis was designed for, plus any additional lowering you add yourself.

When I get 5 in the summer I intend to do some measuring of the steering g arm angle with standard trackrod ends and hyperthetiacally with inverted ones. It's a big spend and I want to be sure it wont take them too far then other way.

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I'd say at a rough guess they're about 30 degrees from parallel with floor maybe even slightly more so I might just try the inverted tie rods and see what happens.
Still dunno weather to get honda OEM ball joints or the buddy club RCA's!?
 

Crackfox

Advanced Member
Messages
622
Vteccin_teg said:
I'd say at a rough guess they're about 30 degrees from parallel with floor maybe even slightly more so I might just try the inverted tie rods and see what happens.
Still dunno weather to get honda OEM ball joints or the buddy club RCA's!?
I'd definatly just get one first.

From what I understand the RCAs just move the centre rather than correct the issue. However, somewhere I read about a civic build in the states and the did rcas and still wasnt happy so went for intered ends and said they worked. But it was a slammed civic ep3 so no comparison really, other the as n that they use the same stut.

My intent is the use some bar/pipe and see how it looks alongside the track rod but with a temp fixing under the strut arm, just to see how it looks.

If you do swap them though you'll have to let me know how it goes.

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SamDC5

Advanced Member
Messages
1,433
The steering arms are angled from factory. Take the car to a competent Motorsport garage to measure the bumpsteer and correct. Throwing parts at the car to try and correct bumpsteer usually makes it worse.

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SamDC5

Advanced Member
Messages
1,433
carl hammond said:
Yet to feel it myself but that said mines hardly ever used on the road and when it is it‘s driven so slowly it‘s (as my girlfriend says) embarrassing . The roads around here have gotten so bad I no longer enjoy driving them so we use her car all the time, I even hate having to drive mine too and from the track
You won't get any bumpsteer Carl, the Yellowspeeds have the correct pickup point for the TRE when lowered.

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carl hammond

Advanced Member
Messages
3,737
You won't get any bumpsteer Carl, the Yellowspeeds have the correct pickup point for the TRE when lowered.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Morning mate

No I don't get any at all, but that said I didn't with any of my setups:

Mugen Showa with Spoon Springs
Bilsteon B16's
or the now used Area Track Focussed YS's

Bump steer is one thing I have to say I have never encountered on the DC5 to date

Glad to see your car up and running again btw mate
 

Johngreen537

Advanced Member
Messages
1,470
There's no point buying parts to try to correct it if you aren't 100% sure of the issue.

Take it to a specialist like Area Motorsport who can measure things properly and advise how to correct it.

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JordanSuth

Advanced Member
Messages
225
I have a FL with OEM set up and you do get the occasional bump steer on back roads where the road conditions aren't great.

As above don't start throwing money at it.

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Vteccin_teg

Advanced Member
Messages
166
Much appreciated guys. You reckon in future it's worth putting spoon springs on the mugen dampers then?
 

carl hammond

Advanced Member
Messages
3,737
Much appreciated guys. You reckon in future it's worth putting spoon springs on the mugen dampers then?
See my review here of setups I have personally owned and used both on the road and track here (inc's the Spoon Springs and Mugen Showa Dampers combo mate
http://www.itr-dc5.club/forum/index.php?/topic/49336-suspension-reviews/

I highly rated it and hope the review will help as it covers most areas, however if something is not covered that you'd like to know just message me :)
 

carl hammond

Advanced Member
Messages
3,737
Your a legend mate very much appreciated:)
No problem

I did the post and updated to help as many as I can as so many questions come up about setups and spoon springs is always a bog one so best to cover it in as much detail as I can through personal experience. But as said if you'd like to know anything more just ask mate
 
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