Dc5 race car geogemtry setup

stu69er

Member
Messages
17
Hello guys I'm looking for some help on the settings for a track set up can any one point me in the right direction. It's a 06 dc5 I have yellow speed coilovers and rear camber adjustment. Rear white line arb. Spherical track rod ends. Thanks

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
 

carl hammond

Advanced Member
Messages
3,336
Hello guys I'm looking for some help on the settings for a track set up can any one point me in the right direction. It's a 06 dc5 I have yellow speed coilovers and rear camber adjustment. Rear white line arb. Spherical track rod ends. Thanks

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
All depends what and how you will use the car. I am on my 4th suspension setup and now have a very aggressive geo that offers me the characteristics I like form the car, but not a lot of people would like it as it's very twitchy compared to how I had it last season.

What sort of track and use will the car be getting and how do you like the car to react to you? e.g. do you like lift off oversteer etc?

Also what Yellowspeed's do you have, the normal ones or the Area Motorsport ones which have been rebuilt by them and come with different spring rates that are used on the Civic Cup cars and the topmounts are inverted for caster over camber?

For reference I have the below setup (but if you use the car on the road a lot i'd not recommend it as tyres don't last long and the cars twitchy as hell on uneven surfaces) but I love that about it and love lift off oversteer.

Front -3.5 camber
Rear -3.2 camber
Front Toe - 2.5mm out front both sides
Rear Toe = 1mm in rear both sides

The rear camber would likely reduce to -3 / -2.8 as it was done with more fuel and the spare wheel so it had added weight.
 

stu69er

Member
Messages
17
Hi bud I'm not even sure where to. Start. The car is a full on track car that will be entering a champisoship once things get back to normal. I suppose what I'm after is a starting point. They guys that's doin the geometry setting don't do a lot of honda but mostly mk2 escorts. So they asked if I can get some settings. Do u have what u used at the start for your first season? I appreciate ur reply thanks

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
 

carl hammond

Advanced Member
Messages
3,336
stu69er said:
Hi bud I'm not even sure where to. Start. The car is a full on track car that will be entering a champisoship once things get back to normal. I suppose what I'm after is a starting point. They guys that's doin the geometry setting don't do a lot of honda but mostly mk2 escorts. So they asked if I can get some settings. Do u have what u used at the start for your first season? I appreciate ur reply thanks

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
A friend of mine races in a series and my geo is nearly the same as his he said so if you are going all out race car then mine would be a good start or just wind the camber back a bit and see how you find it. All depends on how you like the car to feel and react to things, I love it to be very controllable yet throwable where it will step out on me but when I want and know it will if that makes sense.

Depending on your parts (and wheel/tyre sizes) I would start at anything from -2 camber front and -1.5 rear and see how it feels. I run very aggressive as I use the curbs a lot and push the car in the bends which meant I regularly leant on the tyre walls a lot so more camber needed. But my issue is wheel sizes, I am not too good with the et numbers etc and so currently run OEM wheels and 225/45/17's tyres all round and will more than likely do so going forward but i'd like some different wheels for a change. Height will also play a big factor in what wheels and tyres you can run.

If you look in the suspension area on here I did a suspension guide thread of all the setups I have had and how I found them and I think I put all the geo's within there (or my build thread), if not message me and I will look for them for you.

Carl
 

JustinEET

Member
Messages
20
Hello guys I'm looking for some help on the settings for a track set up can any one point me in the right direction. It's a 06 dc5 I have yellow speed coilovers and rear camber adjustment. Rear white line arb. Spherical track rod ends. Thanks

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
I'm a little late but I'll drop my 2cents.

A lot of this is going to depend on how you drive and after measuring tire temperatures.
But key things is just knowing what things do.
Negative camber helps with cornering as the tire rolls to the outside. But also be aware that when you use throttle and the front end goes up that causes camber change. It causes it to add positive camber.

Lately I been thinking about how caster is an excellent tool for FWD. Since we can add negative camber with it. That means less static camber so you can have better contact patch in straightline. For performance cars running like around 5-6 degress positive caster is a good place to start. Just be aware that the more positive caster the more tire weight you are gonna have against the earth. So for those who deleted power steering you will really feel the burn.

As far as Toe... You could use Toe out in the front to help with turn in. But I wouldn't go over 0.1 as Toe changes can be detrimental in my experience. Especially with tire wear.

With bump steer you can change the steering rack slider bushing to be more solid as well. Over here in the states no one I know of has used the Spherical Tie rod ends and none of our websites have them for sale. So I'm actually going to experiment with them myself :)

Also another thing in my opinion. I would use Camber Bolts as much as you can for static camber. Because camber plates not only change your camber angle but they change your scrub radius due to the fact that you are changing the steering axis inclination. So use camber bolts first and camber plates second, imo.

Also I see that Yellow Speed has a MAJOR popularity over in Europe. They are practically unknown here in the states. Glad to see they have good reputation since I'm going with Yellow Speed too.
 

carl hammond

Advanced Member
Messages
3,336
I'm a little late but I'll drop my 2cents.

A lot of this is going to depend on how you drive and after measuring tire temperatures.
But key things is just knowing what things do.
Negative camber helps with cornering as the tire rolls to the outside. But also be aware that when you use throttle and the front end goes up that causes camber change. It causes it to add positive camber.

Lately I been thinking about how caster is an excellent tool for FWD. Since we can add negative camber with it. That means less static camber so you can have better contact patch in straightline. For performance cars running like around 5-6 degress positive caster is a good place to start. Just be aware that the more positive caster the more tire weight you are gonna have against the earth. So for those who deleted power steering you will really feel the burn.

As far as Toe... You could use Toe out in the front to help with turn in. But I wouldn't go over 0.1 as Toe changes can be detrimental in my experience. Especially with tire wear.

With bump steer you can change the steering rack slider bushing to be more solid as well. Over here in the states no one I know of has used the Spherical Tie rod ends and none of our websites have them for sale. So I'm actually going to experiment with them myself :)

Also another thing in my opinion. I would use Camber Bolts as much as you can for static camber. Because camber plates not only change your camber angle but they change your scrub radius due to the fact that you are changing the steering axis inclination. So use camber bolts first and camber plates second, imo.

Also I see that Yellow Speed has a MAJOR popularity over in Europe. They are practically unknown here in the states. Glad to see they have good reputation since I'm going with Yellow Speed too.
I agree with 90% of this but some of it from experience I would go against. For example you are correct regarding caster, how it benefits a FWD car and also how it impacts on static camber etc but Camber Bolts are not the way forward for a full on track or race car. They are very limited to the amount of camber you can gain and they are FAR from good when you use curbs on track a lot (as I do).

One set of camber bolts can normally only give circa -1.5 degree of camber and running two sets can get you up to -2.2 degrees (give or take a little depending on additional factors to be considered, internal weight (persons etc), car height and so on.

I ran two sets of camber bolts on track and halfway through the day using the curbs a lot they came loose, I re-geo'd it and tried again and again and even with threadlock etc and the same results. They are fine if you use one set only and also are more off the curbs but they are not a good choice for a straight up track or race car like mine is used.

The normal YS (Yellow Speed) are not that good, the ones we generally go for are the Area Motorsport revised ones, they re-valve them, add better spring rates and invert the topmounts for caster gains. The way they also allow you camber is from a slotted strut design. These are setup by Area to the spec's of the EP3 Cup Cars (as they chassis are so similar) and they are the ones most of us buy. I am on suspesnion setup 4 in as many years and am currently trying out the Area Yellow Speed's after selling off the Bilstein B16's due to the lack of top mount adjustability, I did look to slot my Bilstein B16's but didn't want to ruin them as they were such a good setup (for someone using the car on the road and occasional trackdays).

Anyone looking for an outright track or race car should think long and hard before buying suspension, I am trying the YS's from Area and finding them very good, but they quality is far form Bilstein and the likes so depending on how and when the car is used would depend on how much should be spent on suspension and other brands (e.g Nitron, AST Aragosta), that said you also have to know how you drive, how you want the car to feel and react etc as the spring rates all will then have to be considered.

If you go for Yellow Speeds make sure you get the Area Motorsport ones with the higher spring rates
 

JustinEET

Member
Messages
20
I agree with 90% of this but some of it from experience I would go against. For example you are correct regarding caster, how it benefits a FWD car and also how it impacts on static camber etc but Camber Bolts are not the way forward for a full on track or race car. They are very limited to the amount of camber you can gain and they are FAR from good when you use curbs on track a lot (as I do).

One set of camber bolts can normally only give circa -1.5 degree of camber and running two sets can get you up to -2.2 degrees (give or take a little depending on additional factors to be considered, internal weight (persons etc), car height and so on.

I ran two sets of camber bolts on track and halfway through the day using the curbs a lot they came loose, I re-geo'd it and tried again and again and even with threadlock etc and the same results. They are fine if you use one set only and also are more off the curbs but they are not a good choice for a straight up track or race car like mine is used.

The normal YS (Yellow Speed) are not that good, the ones we generally go for are the Area Motorsport revised ones, they re-valve them, add better spring rates and invert the topmounts for caster gains. The way they also allow you camber is from a slotted strut design. These are setup by Area to the spec's of the EP3 Cup Cars (as they chassis are so similar) and they are the ones most of us buy. I am on suspesnion setup 4 in as many years and am currently trying out the Area Yellow Speed's after selling off the Bilstein B16's due to the lack of top mount adjustability, I did look to slot my Bilstein B16's but didn't want to ruin them as they were such a good setup (for someone using the car on the road and occasional trackdays).

Anyone looking for an outright track or race car should think long and hard before buying suspension, I am trying the YS's from Area and finding them very good, but they quality is far form Bilstein and the likes so depending on how and when the car is used would depend on how much should be spent on suspension and other brands (e.g Nitron, AST Aragosta), that said you also have to know how you drive, how you want the car to feel and react etc as the spring rates all will then have to be considered.

If you go for Yellow Speeds make sure you get the Area Motorsport ones with the higher spring rates
That's good insight. Last time I was using them I only used one set of camber bolts and never had an issue. I had thought about using two sets but I see that is a bad idea.
To be honest I was planning on running one set again. I was able to get my one set out to -1.5. So I was going to go that route again and lock it down. Then push another -0.5 to get myself at -2 in the front from camber plates. Then from there run temperatures from a track day on the tires. If I need another negative degree i'll go ahead and use the camber plates again.

Oh ok, so Area Motorsports modified their Yellow-Speeds. I was thinking that Yellow-speed sends them a custom batch based off their recommendation.
The Yellow Speeds I have on order are the Advanced Pro Plus Circuit model. Which I gave them the custom spring rates that I wanted them valved for.
advanced-pro-plus_pic_b2.jpg
advanced-pro-plus_pic_b4.jpg

They are supposed to be able to adjust camber and caster.
 

carl hammond

Advanced Member
Messages
3,336
That's good insight. Last time I was using them I only used one set of camber bolts and never had an issue. I had thought about using two sets but I see that is a bad idea.
To be honest I was planning on running one set again. I was able to get my one set out to -1.5. So I was going to go that route again and lock it down. Then push another -0.5 to get myself at -2 in the front from camber plates. Then from there run temperatures from a track day on the tires. If I need another negative degree i'll go ahead and use the camber plates again.

Oh ok, so Area Motorsports modified their Yellow-Speeds. I was thinking that Yellow-speed sends them a custom batch based off their recommendation.
The Yellow Speeds I have on order are the Advanced Pro Plus Circuit model. Which I gave them the custom spring rates that I wanted them valved for.
View attachment 7109
View attachment 7110

They are supposed to be able to adjust camber and caster.
Yeah Area Motorsport re-do theirs inhouse, 8kg front and 16kg rear springs and pre-set all the internals to work for the DC5 chassis as best it can. They topmounts allow additional caster and then the camber is done using the lower bolt holes (one of which has been slotted) to allow the strut to move for camber gains up to -4 or just above -4 degrees from memory.

Mines been fully setup by a race specialist and fully corner weighted with a geo to suit my driving style which is why I am running so much camber and maximum caster with the additional caster gains from the caster gain bushes also

What you have ordered should be fine, make sure the collars are locked on very well as mine came loose, they do specify to hit them on with a punch or similar and use some ACF or ARC on them to aid them in lasting longer and not rusting at all imo mate, these are not un to the quality (of manufactured materials) of the likes of Bilstein (taking from experience) but they are far better as a circuit setup for dedicated track and race cars
 
Top