Engine Pinging

[JackZ]

Hi, guys ... im new here. ^^/

I owned Integra Type R make 2002 ... bought in Australia, well, Australia version.
I've been having problem with engine pinging or knocking.
The problem occurs when for instance:
-Weather temperature is hot, now is summer
-On uphill the car will start pinging. Running around 80-70KM/hr on 5th gear almost 3000rpm. And the car practically loss lots of power. Pushing the gas pedal wont help. If i shift to fourth gear suddenly it will be horrible downshifting ... ;_;
-Ocasionally happen on flat surface or downhill.
It's horrible the engine sounds like a diesel ... to tell you the truth.
For starter when i bought the car, i used Shell Optimax which is graded 98 ...

I brought the car back and forth between 2 dealer services, they couldnt really pinpoint the problem. One even refused that it is pinging. At one stage one of the replaced my fuel injector (under warranty). They said it was busted. It does help a little bit on reducing the pinging. But it never stop it.

Before the fuel injector was replaced, the pinging is awful, practically on ever gear, including take off. After, the only remains are the above characteristic i mentioned. It is still extremely annoying. It really disturbed my rythm on shifting gears.
After the fuel injector was replaced ... i decided to change the fuel to Mobil Synergy8000 which is also graded 98 here in australia.

I've lived throughout 14500K with this problem ... I've then decided to bring it to other dealer service (third one). I've priorly notify Honda Australia through e-mail before i went to this one. Yesterday, i went for a road test with the mechanic. N he indeed acknowledged that the noise is pinging on the engine. He told me that there is nothing much he can do, only check whether the computers and sensors are working correctly (not that the other dealers havent tried this before). Apparently, they were booked out yesterday. So, i have to go back next week. The thing that disturbed me the most is that the mechanic told me that may be i should consider fuel additive to boost the octane with the big quote "It is not recommended by Honda". Well, i have to admit im at least 1% happy that some 1 in Honda ... does recognised it as pinging after 1 year+ of nightmare with this noise. Im almost at my last straw actually. If this time it doesnt work. Im gonna seek Honda Australia for further progress by calling them directly. I doubt im gonna go to Department of Fair Trading for this but i might as well. However, it is a lot of hustle. Last consideration will be octane booster. Then followed by selling the car.
Im not a mechanic man or expert at all.

Is there anything you guys can recommend me to ask the Honda ppl to check on my next week inspection/service? as for the cause of engine pinging?

Thanks
JackZ

 

[loanshark]

Ask what was wrong with the 1 injector they replaced, and ask how they're so sure the other 3 are not similarly faulty. Was it partially blocked or otherwise running too lean on that cylinder? Maybe the problem is exacerbated by running very lean (and emission clean :roll: ) which can provoke pinging? I'm guessing there's not much to adjust on the factory setup, replacement of ECU/chip/sensors may be only option for dealers. Plenty expensive aftermarket options, but that's not what you signed up for!

I'd kick up a fair sort of stink if it were me. We're talkin' bout a brand new, expensive sports car. The whole point of VTEC is to have a 'normal' behaving engine below 5,500rpm. I know it's a high performance car, but surely a factory 'street' car has to behave itself and start pulling at 3,000rpm? It's probably something they struggle with, it's why we don't get the even higher output JDM here. Still, the S2000 makes around 180KW from 2L, dosn't it? So I would expect they *know* some of the issues involved and how to solve them. Getting them to admit it may be another thing.

 

[MikeTh]

Pinging Engine

Not had much to do with the DC5 engine yet but would advise checking to see how the engine is running in a good old fashioned way. Take it for a reasonable run and endeavour to stop it without letting it idle to much if at all. Take a plug out and firstly look at the condition of that, black and oily, to rich. Almost white, to lean. Should be light browny colour. For a more definitive guide use a penlight and look at the top of the pistons. If the engine bogs down and finds it difficult to increase revs, probably too rich, if it runs out of top end, to lean. Worth checking your air intake is clear. As said, haven't done much with the DC5 yet, but will be racing one next year in the UK's EERC championship, so getting ready to get dirty.

Mike

 

[JackZ]

Well, got my car back yesterday. They said the spark plug is fine, nothing wrong. The sensors are all in OK condition. Reset everything to factory setting. I drove it around yesterday and only encounter a small glitch of noise nothing major. Actually, i didnt hear it but my bro did. He was sitting beside me.
Today, drove it out, good lord in heaven. My car condition back track to months ago, where the pinging practically happen on every single gear. I was having hard time driving it.
They dont fix it ... the fuk it up. Grrr ....
I would like to play around with the plugs but not a mechanic man in one sense and dont have the tool. I surf around the net and supposedly it's easy to do it. It just hard to find a torque wrench, though it aint a necessity. But in my mind it would help, probably. I checked the air intake a month ago, it wasnt hard to take it off. And again nothing is wrong with it. Still clean ... my car is only 14000K
I cant take this anymore. Too frustating. I swear i wont drive this crap nemore till Honda Australia responded to me. Otherwise, I wont give a crap, either take it to Department of Fair Trading or sell the car back to Honda 2nd hand. I dont have time for this crap.
The mechanic did say that i should have a crack at octane booster. However, i dont really fond of such thing. Australia Integra Type R already cut down to 200hp just to match the octane level here ... why should i put in an octane booster? It's not like I imported the Jap version of the car which required mmm...i think its 101 RON. Pricey premium petrol plus 1 octane booster for each tank ... is just doesnt cut it. I refused to use octane booster. It's silly for a factory setting car.
Tsk ... If i sell it, my custom plate will go up in smoke, i just paid for it. I also just paid for 3 years of Quicktrack. What the hell ...
"Power of Nightmare" Honda

I have a feeling that Honda services is a place that full of denial. I just simply hate it. N btw as for profesionalism ... They leave a mark on my engine looks like they scratched it on the way of checking the spark plug ... quite deep scar. Brilliant, just like when the other service center scratching my panel near the A/C n Stereo on the way to fix a loose tracking device (Quicktrak). N the other service center when they messed up my front body kit, though it wasnt in the visible area ... underneath. Proffesionalism is as low as it could get, i tell you.

Happy Christmas n New Year. Thanks for responding.
Cheers,
JackZ

 

[loanshark]

Sorry to hear you're still having trouble. I totally agree with you on the issue of octance boosters. I really would have thought it should run fine on PULP alone.

I'm not doubting you could check the plugs, but I don't think a brand new Type R is the best place to teach yourself mechanic skills...everyone makes mistakes when they start. I don't know that a plug check will reveal much anyway if the problem is intermittent and only at 'lower' revs and fine above 4,500rpm.

Maybe the Honda Owners Club in your state could provide some info or point you in the right direction of a more helpful workshop? I'm thinking along the lines of a Euro Performance specialist...someone with a real interest in what they're doing, instead of a dealership that handles mostly family cars that get driven sedately.

I also think some manufacturer sensor tests which are done 'static', in the workshop, do not always demonstrate a problem which happens out on the road. I'd be keen to try swapping a knock sensor at least. But, really, it could be lots of things, big or small. WHATEVER it is, it should be Honda Australia's problem.

Bottom line, I don't think you've fully got Honda's attention yet. Maybe it's your appearance? It shouldn't matter :roll: , but if you roll up to the service manager looking like an extra from Fast N Furious, the movie, you're probably not gonna get as much respect as if you appear to be a conservative Yuppie. I know, I know, who do they expect to buy a Type R...but I just don't see the average Aussie service manager being "into" the whole Type R scene.

 

[tempest]

I'd check the fuel pressure regulator/fuel pump setup in the fuel tank. Ensure you have 3.5 bar.

Also try unplugging the breather line that blows back into the airbox. Normally hot air goes back thru the inlet stream also lowering the fuel octane. I got instant response the moment i unplugged that line. Also since the hot gas passes the airtemp sensor, the ecu also retards the timing causing a further drop of power.

 

[tempest]

I'd check the fuel pressure regulator/fuel pump setup in the fuel tank. Ensure you have 3.5 bar.

Also try unplugging the breather line that blows back into the airbox. Normally hot air goes back thru the inlet stream also lowering the fuel octane. I got instant response the moment i unplugged that line. Also since the hot gas passes the airtemp sensor, the ecu also retards the timing causing a further drop of power.