P0113 & P0141

[DC5RLY]

Just had a major service at 75k and running perfect since, then all of a sudden it won't start, idle steady or drive properly.

I have to hold the key for 5 seconds to fire up and once ticking over the revs bounce between 1,500 - 2,500 vigorously.

Pressing the throttle has two effects, either cut out completely or slightly rev with little response.

Fault scanned and it came back with p0113 intake air temperature circuit high input and p0141 secondary HO2S sensor 2 heater circuit high input.

I have replaced the IAT sensor and this has improved the rev hunting and ticking over is back to normal, however I'm still getting power loss when on the throttle and I've noticed the car is using a lot of fuel.

I'm unsure if I should replace the second oxygen sensor as the fault code is showing this or was this only coming up because the IAT sensor had thrown it out?

 

[Johngreen537]

IAT shouldn't throw out 2ndary O2 sensor.

Can you view live data on your reader? If so look at voltages on primary and secondary sensors. The should usually be around 0.1 to 0.9 volts with the secondary being slight higher than primary.


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[DC5RLY]

Thanks for the reply John.

It's a mate who has the Snap-On scanner so I'll ask him after work, I'm sure it will read live data.

The secondary oxygen sensor purposes is to check the Cat emissions right? And the primary is to check engine performance.

Just thinking with the secondary flagging up on the fault scanner, could it be indicating the Cat is bad? Hmm something else to check :xconfused:

 

[DC5RLY]

Update on the car this morning.

Start-up is still shocking and taking a while to turn over. Revs are weak as heck, having to hold the throttle at 2k for a minute until it settled down.

Can smell and see it's throwing a lot of unburn fuel out the exhaust, tons of white smoke.

I'm still scratching my head where this has come from!? This is possibly unrelated, but when I had the service the mechanic mentioned the valve timing was quite a bit out and even the exhaust timing which apparently is unusual.

I‘m now thinking is this is from a bad 02 sensor or possibly the Cat is on its way out?

Just to mention the car hasen't thrown up a EML or any dash lights, another head scratcher!?

 

[MilanoChris]

Could be that the chain has stretched and maybe jumped.

 

[DC5RLY]

Could be that the chain has stretched and maybe jumped.

[SIZE=11pt]It's been checked on the service and showed no signs of damage or stretched links. [/SIZE]

 

[SamDC5]

If the chain had stretched to a point where it was causing the engine to run that badly, you would more than likely get a code from the Cam position sensor or the VTC system.

Sounds to me like the primary 02 sensor is at fault here.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

[SamDC5]

Just had a thought, could possibly be your fuel pump?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

[Liamneale69]

Surely if they have said valve timing is out you need to get it timed up how it should be and go from there?

 

[DC5RLY]

Surely if they have said valve timing is out you need to get it timed up how it should be and go from there?

This was done at the service Liamneale69 the mechanic mentioned they were out while adjusting them for me.

 

[DC5RLY]

Just had a thought, could possibly be your fuel pump?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

I though about this at first, but I can still hear it prime and it was replaced in the service.

 

[SamDC5]

I though about this at first, but I can still hear it prime and it was replaced in the service.

Have you had it on a scanner/diagnostics? Ideally you need to see what the 02 sensors are doing to be honest.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

[DC5RLY]

Have you had it on a scanner/diagnostics? Ideally you need to see what the 02 sensors are doing to be honest.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Working lates last week and over the weekend so unfortunetally couldn't get round to sorting this out.

It's going to a mates garage tomorrow morning for scan.

Thanks for all the advice, will see what the verdic is tomorrow.

 

[adam.]

white smoke

Fuel combusting in the exhaust would be black/dark grey smoke...

White = water/coolant/condensation...

If you disconnect both O2's wouldn't it use a default ign table and throw the EML on, but fuel *mostly* correctly?

 

[DC5RLY]

Update from this morning..

The Snap-On closest model we could find to the itr was a civic type r 2003. Not a fantastic start

The good: first fault code p0113 intake air temperature circuit high input has not returned since replacing the part and clearing the code.

The bad: still showing the p0141 secondary HO2S sensor 2 heater circuit high input

We could monitor live data, but unsure if the parameters were set correctly K20a2 not K20a, unsure if that makes much difference.

Head scratcher, both 02 sensor readings came up as N/A!? once again unsure if this is the scanner/software or if both sensors are naff and not working.

:xalright:

 

[SamDC5]

Weird, you should still see voltage readings from the 02 sensors even with a K20a2 configuration. To confirm the sensors are good, you should be able to go across the pins with a multimeter to see a resistance from the sensor. If there's no resistance across any of the pins from the sensor they're goosed. However you should get an EML from a bad 02 sensor.

I know I mentioned this before, but your fuel pump could be an issue here. When you service the pump there's 2 little O rings that should be replaced and they come with the new filter, they may have been left off?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

[SamDC5]

Didn't see the white smoke part you mentioned until just now. White smoke out the exhaust like Adam mentioned would indicate water being burnt. Possible head gasket?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

[MilanoChris]

Didn't see the white smoke part you mentioned until just now. White smoke out the exhaust like Adam mentioned would indicate water being burnt. Possible head gasket?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

I doubt it, K20 head gaskets are very strong.

 

[SamDC5]

I doubt it, K20 head gaskets are very strong.

Seen a few go pop on the CTR page never seen a K20a go though. Still, white smoke isn't good so water is being burnt somewhere

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

[DC5RLY]

Didn't see the white smoke part you mentioned until just now. White smoke out the exhaust like Adam mentioned would indicate water being burnt. Possible head gasket?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

It does throw quite a bit out on start-up, once warm this completely stops.

No issues what so ever with oil or coolant levels.

Just to mention the major service was done at Grinspeed at the end of February and the way those guys work on cars I'd be very surprised if they didn't notice a naff head gasket.

This is why I'm so stumped :xconfused:

The car was there all day and had valve clearance, spark plugs, all filters, all fluids apart from coolant as this was tested and no issues. The fuel filter was even changed over.

I'm fetching it down to Thoroughbred in the morning for a diagnostics.. I'll update once I know more.