aem (ecu)

[phil r]

Just wandered if any one is running a aem standalone or any knowledge on these, was told better gains than the kpro by the aem mapper, tuner up at the autosport show :?:
He was called dan turner (advanced motorsport & engineering)
cheers phil :?:

 

[bling]

if it is a independant management then it will be better than K-pro as a tuner will be able to map it better due to having more points/targets and probably more maps like fuel, ignition, vtec etc...
only downside on some indenpendant ecu is that they dont have a knock sensor built in.
but you can ask him all this.

 

[fenomeno26]

Here in Cyprus we dont have KPRO so we go with AEM tuning...The local AEM tuner does miracles on Hondas with the AEM ECU...

 

[jostrom]

K-Pro has all the needed features and resolution for tuning. Both will make the same power if mapped properly. This is a fact no matter what either AEM or K-Pro dealers say.

K-Pro is just as independent as AEM, it just isn't real-time updateable, which doesn't really matter. AEM has more options, but I'm yet to see anyone running a K-series engine that actually needs any of them. AEM is however harder to map due to not having 3D maps like the OEM ECU / K-Pro. The K-Pro cars also run better in normal driving conditions (startup, cold startup, idle, cruise etc.) and are more reliable simply because K-Pro uses OEM engine management algorithms. That's why I would not consider AEM over K-Pro. I also hate the AEM tuning software, kmanager has superior usability. There's no use for the knock sensor on either of them when tuning.

 

[jostrom]

Here in Cyprus we dont have KPRO so we go with AEM tuning...The local AEM tuner does miracles on Hondas with the AEM ECU...

You don't have K-Pro simply because your tuner sells AEM and therefore refuses to tune a competing product.

 

[phil r]

I was just weighing up options does anyone know dan turner he is also a very good mapper He use to work for the mugen racing team, didn't knock the kpro as he also maps these.
he recons dc sports 4-2-1 ,itg drop in filter & aem 240 bhp.
These were the prices he qoted out of interest.
1) aem ecu £1500 including vat
2)dc sports stainless manifold ,£360 not including vat
3) ITG drop in filter ,£50 not including vat
Thats not meaning to say I'm not going to take the kpro route trying to compare the 2 main options & gains for the price .

 

[jostrom]

AEM ECU needs to have separate AC switch and it still doesn't control the temp gauge. Or you will need to run it paraller with the OEM ECU... The price is also very high, you can get a K-Pro into your own ECU for £736 or with another ECU for £870. As I said, if mapped properly they will have same gains. I can't see why anyone would buy the AEM, but obviously the choice is yours...

 

[MJ Type-R]

Mr Turner will try to sell you AEM and state the benifits etc... however having had a nasty / painful experience with the said individual... I'd walk all the way to the Moon and Back so as to provent him touching my car again :!: :!:

Think that's enough to say....

I bet he's not gone into some of the issues with the AEM either or some of the tuning limitations i.e. inlet cam control :roll:

Mike

 

[rarerims]

He was called dan turner

Do a search for JAKAN on any of the honda forums apart from this one..

I absolutly agree with Mikes comments

give me a ring Phil :wink:

 

[rarerims]

On this actual issue thou, if an ecu is capable of adjusting timing and fuelling one wont make any more power than the other..

Also AEM's are a pig to map/setup cold start, and the general running of the car, which a Hondata using the bones of the stock ecu can do easily..

Im not saying you cant get the AEM to run the car as well as hondata, but its nowhere near as cheap or easy..

I had an AEM in my dc2, I just sold it and am using an equivilent to hondata (crome)

J

 

[phil r]

aem (ecu}

cheers guys I guess my questions have been answered.
Julian I've sent you a pm xthumbsup

 

[LeeH]

Does anyone know the limitation of 'Unichip' while we are on subject?

 

[phil r]

lee how much mapping did you have to get your 260 bhp on your car & did the rbc inlet manifold make that much differance in your figures :?:

 

[C&S Evo7]

Phil r, Lee has a few more things done to his car than his sig would suggest :wink:

I have also known said individual for several years and too would not go to him, he makes lots of claims but as the others have correctly pointed out you will/cannot make any more power by swapping the ecu and a remap.
and you lose the multiplex control from the std ecu,

I was looking at the aem as i wanted to Datalog and use some more sophisticated launch control but in the end it just was not worth the hassle, kpro works just fine

It is the best option

 

[jostrom]

The K-Pro datalogging has changed, K-Pro's from the new batches now have 2megs for on-board datalogging:

 

[Turtle]

On this actual issue thou, if an ecu is capable of adjusting timing and fuelling one wont make any more power than the other..

Not actually the case in practice.

Different ECU's vary in how well they deal with the sensor signals in order to determine speed/load of the engine - which is then used to lookup in the maps to get the ignition/fueling.

It's not normally an issue unless the mechanical setup of the engine is somewhat on the limit. An example being the F20C from the S2000. The properties of the intake manifold design on the F20C result in a tricky map sensor signal. Some ECU's are much better at dealing with that than others. The poorer ones end up struggling to give a consistent load - resulting more cycle to cycle variation and hence lost power. You can sometimes make external tweaks to improve matters but that's beyond the scope of what I'm going to post.

It's not really an issue to worry about for 99% of engine builds. But if you're undertaking a significant build and the tuner suggests a more capable ECU (for example a Motec), don't assume they're after more money - it really can be the case that a better ECU is required to get the most out of the mechanical setup of the proposed engine build.

For most people Julian's statement is fine though. Just thought this might interest a few people...

-Brian.

 

[rarerims]

[Different ECU's vary in how well they deal with the sensor signals in order to determine speed/load of the engine - which is then used to lookup in the maps to get the ignition/fueling.

It's not normally an issue unless the mechanical setup of the engine is somewhat on the limit. An example being the F20C from the S2000. The properties of the intake manifold design on the F20C result in a tricky map sensor signal. Some ECU's are much better at dealing with that than others. The poorer ones end up struggling to give a consistent load - resulting more cycle to cycle variation and hence lost power. You can sometimes make external tweaks to improve matters but that's beyond the scope of what I'm going to post.

It's not really an issue to worry about for 99% of engine builds. But if you're undertaking a significant build and the tuner suggests a more capable ECU (for example a Motec), don't assume they're after more money - it really can be the case that a better ECU is required to get the most out of the mechanical setup of the proposed engine build.

For most people Julian's statement is fine though. Just thought this might interest a few people...

-Brian.

I didnt know that :lol:

I thought the big tuners just wanted more money out of me..

:x

 

[Turtle]

Sadly there are an awful lot of people who think they're a 'great tuner' who do suggest more expensive ECU's purely to make more money out of clients.

For one of the S2000's I've worked on I built some external circuitry to allow the use of a cheaper ECU option while still getting the most out of the mechanical setup of the engine. For that case it was about £200 for the circuitry/labour - the extra cost for an ECU capable of similar results without the circuit was around £800. The difference in peak power output - a shade under 10bhp... an extreme example as it happens due to the mechanics of the car, but in that case it was certainly worth the time/effort.

-Brian.

 

[jostrom]

Different ECU's vary in how well they deal with the sensor signals in order to determine speed/load of the engine - which is then used to lookup in the maps to get the ignition/fueling.

This is true, the good thing with K-Pro here is that the OEM ECU works very well with the OEM sensors as it is designed for them.

An example being the F20C from the S2000. The properties of the intake manifold design on the F20C result in a tricky map sensor signal. Some ECU's are much better at dealing with that than others. The poorer ones end up struggling to give a consistent load - resulting more cycle to cycle variation and hence lost power. You can sometimes make external tweaks to improve matters but that's beyond the scope of what I'm going to post.

Funny that the S2000 came up here. Now that K-Pro is available for S2000, people are starting to report better startup, idle etc. with K-Pro than AEM what they have used previously. K-Pro in a S2000 does require changing some sensors to other OEM ones, but it clearly seems to work better than the AEM.

(talking again about AEM vs. K-Pro because that's what this thread is about)

It's not really an issue to worry about for 99% of engine builds. But if you're undertaking a significant build and the tuner suggests a more capable ECU (for example a Motec), don't assume they're after more money - it really can be the case that a better ECU is required to get the most out of the mechanical setup of the proposed engine build.

Exactly, but I have to say I haven't heard of a K-series application that would actually require Motec. Most of the winning teams in the US drag scene run K-Pro. Many CTR rallycars here (stock K20) do run Motec simply because has a very good reputation in the rally scene and there are many known tuners for it. Very expensive though and again doesn't control Honda multiplexer and require additional wiring to control reverse lock-out solenoid and A/C switch.

I guess you guys in the UK don't have to worry about OBD2 checks at MOT, but that's another difference between AEM and K-Pro. Proper OBD2 error codes that relate the problem to a workshop manual are also a good thing when determining a problem in the car. AEM doesn't provide that either.