bottom end failure!!!

[j30l]

Look what happens when your flat out on the autobahns for about 10 min.

Spun a bearing and bent a rod #-o . Im lucky it didn't spit it out the side of the block!

 

[LA-DC5 ITR]

unlucky dude, what speed were ya hitting

 

[JT3173]

Gutted for you mate I really I am!
I take it your enthusiastic driving was Ring inspired since you were accross this way?
It was only early this morning when I was on Club RSX and had a look at thread on there from you that I was wondering what happened to you as I have not seen you on here for a while, I guess you are still around though.

Good luck with the rebuild mate, any plans for making a little more power now you have the engine in bits and a littlw work to do?

 

[j30l]

unlucky dude, what speed were ya hitting

To tell you the truth i just dont know. I was more bothered about watching the road but if i was to guess i'd say about 155mph give or take. tbh i was shitting myself as my geometry isn't set up for high speed runs.

Gutted for you mate I really I am!
I take it your enthusiastic driving was Ring inspired since you were accross this way?
It was only early this morning when I was on Club RSX and had a look at thread on there from you that I was wondering what happened to you as I have not seen you on here for a while, I guess you are still around though.

Good luck with the rebuild mate, any plans for making a little more power now you have the engine in bits and a littlw work to do?

Just been busy trying to make my million :lol:

Yeah we were on our way to the ring. :cry: Didnt even make it this time and the weather was so nice!

Im undecided about what to do with it yet. I did buy a k24 for cheap to make it a frankinstien but i came to a conclusion that i like to rev the bollox off it so sold that, plus i dont want too much power and torque as i was happy with the power to weight ratio i had (it is only a front wheel drive car).

ATM i think its going to be something on the lines of cosworth 87mm pistons, cosworth rods with a compression of about 12.8 and a block guard! The heads just getting uprated springs, some sort of higher lift cams just dont know which ones yet, standard new valves, 3 angled cut seats as its one of the first heads which didnt come with this. That should see more than enough power for me. If i do feel i want a bit more i can always move on to ITB's but tbh i doubt it. My plans keep on changing everyday :lol:

Im definitely going to be running an external oil cooler as oil temp was probably the main cause of destruction!!! Maybe even a couple of gauges [-X but they will have to look factory as i hate gauges all over the dash etc.

It should be built back up in about 2 weeks. Then ive got to run the bugger in then ive got to map it all over again. Then its back to the ring!!! :twisted:

 

[JT3173]

unlucky dude, what speed were ya hitting

To tell you the truth i just dont know. I was more bothered about watching the road but if i was to guess i'd say about 155mph give or take. tbh i was excrement myself as my geometry isn't set up for high speed runs.

Gutted for you mate I really I am!
I take it your enthusiastic driving was Ring inspired since you were accross this way?
It was only early this morning when I was on Club RSX and had a look at thread on there from you that I was wondering what happened to you as I have not seen you on here for a while, I guess you are still around though.

Good luck with the rebuild mate, any plans for making a little more power now you have the engine in bits and a littlw work to do?

Just been busy trying to make my million :lol:

Yeah we were on our way to the ring. :cry: Didnt even make it this time and the weather was so nice!

Im undecided about what to do with it yet. I did buy a k24 for cheap to make it a frankinstien but i came to a conclusion that i like to rev the testes off it so sold that, plus i dont want too much power and torque as i was happy with the power to weight ratio i had (it is only a front wheel drive car).

ATM i think its going to be something on the lines of cosworth 87mm pistons, cosworth rods with a compression of about 12.8 and a block guard! The heads just getting uprated springs, some sort of higher lift cams just dont know which ones yet, standard new valves, 3 angled cut seats as its one of the first heads which didnt come with this. That should see more than enough power for me. If i do feel i want a bit more i can always move on to ITB's but tbh i doubt it. My plans keep on changing everyday :lol:

Im definitely going to be running an external oil cooler as oil temp was probably the main cause of destruction!!! Maybe even a couple of gauges [-X but they will have to look factory as i hate gauges all over the dash etc.

It should be built back up in about 2 weeks. Then ive got to run the bugger in then ive got to map it all over again. Then its back to the ring!!! :twisted:

I feel for you mate

Sounds like a good plan you have there, I hope it works out!
I am loving the extra power and tourque I have, its unreal the difference it makes!!

I have some gauges that I bought too, oil temp, oil pressure and water temp but I am unsure of where to mount them, I have seen a few good places under on CRSX but I dont want them on the A piller, ontop of the dash if I can help it (probably have to be this one) as anywhere else you have to take your eyes off the road too much.

I did see them mounted in the climate control silver bit where the knobs are and a relocated climate control set of switches in the glove box but I am sure they could be relocated somewhere else.

Good luck anyway and look at it this way, at least it was on the autobhan and not the Ring, that could have been even more dangerous!

 

[j30l]

I feel for you mate

Sounds like a good plan you have there, I hope it works out!
I am loving the extra power and tourque I have, its unreal the difference it makes!!

I have some gauges that I bought too, oil temp, oil pressure and water temp but I am unsure of where to mount them, I have seen a few good places under on CRSX but I dont want them on the A piller, ontop of the dash if I can help it (probably have to be this one) as anywhere else you have to take your eyes off the road too much.

I did see them mounted in the climate control silver bit where the knobs are and a relocated climate control set of switches in the glove box but I am sure they could be relocated somewhere else.

Good luck anyway and look at it this way, at least it was on the autobhan and not the Ring, that could have been even more dangerous!

I saw them gauges inserted into the climate control. They looked very neat, just think its alot of ball ache to do though. I may look into getting a digital dash if thats the case. I saw a DIY on RSX forum to make one out of a s2000 cluster iirc. Ill try and dig out the link.

Yeah it could have been a disaster on the ring.
Thanks pal. I'll keep you informed about the build.

 

[WestYorkshireman]

155 MPH definately no room for error at that speed

 

[j30l]

155 MPH definately no room for error at that speed

It was nice and quiet so that did make it a bit safer, if you can actually call it safer :-" .
Definitely wont be doing it again. Just wanted to see what she had and felt like.

 

[dan the man]

Hey they are steady at that speed. My DC5 was anyway and it was GPS not speedo. I only did it for 2 mins tho..

what oil were you using?

 

[C&S Evo7]

yep dan, my question as well, what oil???

at autobahn speeds it won't have got too hot as the airflow is huge at 150+
my car used to get temps in high 120's when racing, and was fine with the right oil.

spinning a bearing is usually caused by 1 of two things

1- lack of oil , the bearing and rod get hot from the extra friction, the bearing wears thin until theres not enough material left to hold it in place, the heat also causes it to stick to the crank and hey presto it turns around.
2 - overrev, (buzzing) the bearing cap and rod stretch (oval) slightly which allow the bearing to move with the crank., once it has moved it spins around, usually this causes damage to the crank but not always,
Overrevving is also often the cause of a bent rod.

are you sure you didn't mis a shift?
it would be quite strange to bend a rod doing a speed run.

 

[j30l]

C&S Evo7
Silkolene Pro S 5w-40. I served the vehical the day before i got on the boat. All the levels were just above max! I put a mugen filter on which ive never used before. When the knocking started my first thoughts was the filter collaped as ive never used a mugen one before (it was lying around my garage and from the display on the box it gives you more ponys :lol: so thought id give it a go). When the car came back from germany the first thing i did was drop the oil. Yep shards of metal some as big as your little finger nail. So i took the filter off, cut it in half to check if it actauly collaped and i was wrong.
To cut a long story short, ive spoken to Ian at clockwise and he even said the same as what my second thoughts could have caused it. Up in them revs for long periods of time with alot of load going through the engine the oil temp has got that hot, probably over 250 degrees (more than twice boiling point for water) the oil has broken down. Causing not enough protection and not sufficiently providing lubrication to the crankshaft and bearings causing friction. Bobs your uncle, Fannys your aunt, thats a spun bearing and bent rod.
But yes i also did think "are my oil levels still ok". On inspection they were near enough exactly the same as when i last checked.

You have to remember long high speed runs are completely different to track racing. When on a track, your up and down the revs. On high speed runs all your doing is sitting at the top of your revs for a long time making the engine hotter and hotter and hotter. Yes the air flow is alot greater at them speeds but this will not cool the oil down enough without an external oil cooler.

This is exactly what Ian has said just in a bit more technical terminology. :lol:


Dan the man
Ive put that much camber it looks like a touring car the way the wheels sit.

 

[JT3173]

C&S Evo7
Silkolene Pro S 5w-40. I served the vehical the day before i got on the boat. All the levels were just above max! I put a mugen filter on which ive never used before. When the knocking started my first thoughts was the filter collaped as ive never used a mugen one before (it was lying around my garage and from the display on the box it gives you more ponys :lol: so thought id give it a go). When the car came back from germany the first thing i did was drop the oil. Yep shards of metal some as big as your little finger nail. So i took the filter off, cut it in half to check if it actauly collaped and i was wrong.
To cut a long story short, ive spoken to Ian at clockwise and he even said the same as what my second thoughts could have caused it. Up in them revs for long periods of time with alot of load going through the engine the oil temp has got that hot, probably over 250 degrees (more than twice boiling point for water) the oil has broken down. Causing not enough protection and not sufficiently providing lubrication to the crankshaft and bearings causing friction. Bobs your uncle, Fannys your aunt, thats a spun bearing and bent rod.
But yes i also did think "are my oil levels still ok". On inspection they were near enough exactly the same as when i last checked.

You have to remember long high speed runs are completely different to track racing. When on a track, your up and down the revs. On high speed runs all your doing is sitting at the top of your revs for a long time making the engine hotter and hotter and hotter. Yes the air flow is alot greater at them speeds but this will not cool the oil down enough without an external oil cooler.

This is exactly what Ian has said just in a bit more technical terminology. :lol:


Dan the man
Ive put that much camber it looks like a touring car the way the wheels sit.

About a year ago I remember being late and so I sat at 140mph on the tomtom dead for 14 minutes, it was 14 because my friend could not beleive we got home that quick from where we were at that speed and I had no problems, the temp gauge was at the normal place. I know the temp gauge tells you nothing about the oil temp but still.

I use the same oil as you now, I hope it does not break down and dry up for me although I wont to sit at high speed now ever again after reading this so Im sure it will be fine but no high speed, period.

Let us all know whats going in to your new engine when you know!!!!!

 

[j30l]

But then you've got to look at different aspects. How many miles has the engine done! I know mine only says 60k but you just dont know if its been wound back a couple of notches to bump the price up (even though it has Japanese service history etc, doesn't mean it cant happen). Or if its been raped over in japan etc....
I know ive taken good care of my engine, you just dont know what the past is! Thats the chance we all take with buying second hand cars.

 

[MJ Type-R]

Have you got K Pro ? if so... what was the rev limit set to ?

If you were running the engine above the OEM limit... with no upgrade to the oil system ( all parts, oil ways etc etc ), then this might be part of the cause....

BTW... the OEM engine does have a heat exchanger unit to help oil cooling.

Mike

 

[j30l]

Have you got K Pro ? if so... what was the rev limit set to ?

If you were running the engine above the OEM limit... with no upgrade to the oil system ( all parts, oil ways etc etc ), then this might be part of the cause....

BTW... the OEM engine does have a heat exchanger unit to help oil cooling.

Mike

Yeah i know the block has a passage way for the oil to go through and then the water runs through the middle of this trying to cool the oil down. But imo this is not suitable for a engine that screams at you when pressing the loud peddle. Then again Honda has spent millions and millions of £'s making this engine so I'm most probably wrong and them channels are sufficient for the job.

I have read and heard about raising the limiter can cause this. I've put the rev limit to 8650 just so I don't start bouncing off the limiter. Giving me that little bit of room for error. This engine what I'm going to build is going to have a modified s2000 oil pump or a 'erls' uprated one which is basically the same as the modified s2000

 

[Jayk]

I think for 10mins flat out, im not suprised. Ihad my EVO flat out at gps 173 for mins, but knew if id kept on it could be disaster. Best of luck with the re-build.

 

[JT3173]

How's your new build coming along buddy?

 

[ejwillistyles]

Kinda interesting post this one, I have done a fair amount of time either flat out or close to flat out in mine before, so far its still running, good luck with the rebuild mate, never nice to have such a big failure but I think you are taking the right attitude - a decent rebuilt and crack on.

 

[j30l]

How's your new build coming along buddy?

Its taking a bit longer as the clutch took a while to get to me. But its all in motion as i speak now. Im getting the bottom end assembled by clockwise motion just so i know everything is spot on and all the tolerances are 'A' ok, then ill build the rest. Hope to get this back up and running soon. I miss it so much! :cry: