Brembo Refurb or Upgrade to Big Brake kit....

[Crazylegs]

Thanks mate. Deciding on what to do, if I end up keeping the Teg I'm going to sack the PBS off and getting some of these instead. I had Hawk on my old Blue one and they too were fantastic but I've always wanted to try the Pagid.

 

[carl hammond]

Thanks mate. Deciding on what to do, if I end up keeping the Teg I'm going to sack the PBS off and getting some of these instead. I had Hawk on my old Blue one and they too were fantastic but I've always wanted to try the Pagid.

As the pbs are hardly used sell them to offset some of the cost of the others mate as I am sure I‘m right in saying you only just got these ?

Don‘t buy Project Mu unless your ready for hard driving only as they are shocking when cold :/

 

[Crazylegs]

As the pbs are hardly used sell them to offset some of the cost of the others mate as I am sure I‘m right in saying you only just got these ?

Don‘t buy Project Mu unless your ready for hard driving only as they are shocking when cold :/

The rears aren't new mate, second hand off Idbul's car. The fronts are new though from what I recall. Not sure how much I'd get for them mind? Worth getting some new discs at the same time do you think?

 

[skengdR]

what rear discs are you guys running ?

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[Johngreen537]

what rear discs are you guys running ?

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Oem rear with pmu hc800 pads.

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[carl hammond]

what rear discs are you guys running ?

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Dixel Es rear and Project Mu HC+800 fronts (they are bad for dust lol)

 

[skengdR]

Oem rear with pmu hc800 pads.

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thanks oem rear on mine , not sure what my front discs are . Ill ask one of you experienced guys at the c&m meet to have a look .

i have oem brembos all around

I wouldnt mind if one of you experienced guys like johngreen / carl or wocka drive my car as well to give me your opinion

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[carl hammond]

The rears aren't new mate, second hand off Idbul's car. The fronts are new though from what I recall. Not sure how much I'd get for them mind? Worth getting some new discs at the same time do you think?

Keep the rears and sell the fronts then mate, rears are hardly used anyway and discs, depends on the condition of yours.

Personally I‘d rather spend money on seat time and enjoying / learning the car over throwing more money at it

Learn how it behaves and you may find the love for it, they are a great fun car when you master them

 

[Fez]

Anyone bought one of the freakyparts kits?

https://freakyparts.co.uk/collections/honda-civic-type-r-ep3-brakes/products/honda-brembo-4-pot-big-brake-kit-mk3-calipers?variant=7321257836589

https://freakyparts.co.uk/collections/honda-integra-dc5-brakes/products/honda-brembo-4-pot-big-brake-kit-with-2-piece-discs

I looked at these but i didnt like the way the pads dont fully cover the disc.

Theres a company in Bridgend south wales called Godspeed that do the renault caliper and they make a disc that fits much better.

I ended up going for ap calipers though, as i didnt see the point in going from an oem brembo, to another oem brembo just with a bigger disc.

 

[ekchris139]

Yeah I'm running the Megane rs250 brembo set up for over a year and a half

They were made for my DC5 before they started released them for sale.

They are insane but all depends what pad you have with them, replacement parts such as pads, discs and calipers are really cheap compared to dc5 brembos.

I do alot of track days per year and these have been the best mod I have done yet. The fit perfectly with the current brake master cylinder of the dc5 so thats not a worry.

Have had people drive the car with my race pads in who have tried cars with ksports, alcon, AP etc and all have said this set up gives the big names a run for their money but with better pedal modulation.

At the price you cant really complain

Best thing about these is they look stock so nobody knows you are running a bbk

@Fez what do you mean Godspeed make these but their a much better fit ? These fit perfectly.

 

[Crazylegs]

Interesting feedback on the Mégane RS brakes. I've just done my second trackday last week and the brakes are a huge letdown, well on my car anyway. I think the brakes actually unsettle the balance of the car and I tend to drive quite heavy on the brakes most of the time; although I am trying to improve this aspect of my driving.

Do this BBK or any BBK help the car feel more settled when braking hard both on the road and/or on track? Something I learned and took a lot from last week is that handling and braking are going to be my next modifications if I keep the car. I really believe they'd make me enjoy driving it more if I could get it settled better as it doesn't give me the confidence to really push on in it.

The Ryland Motorsport kit looks amazing, the AP Racing one. That's the BBK I'd really like.

 

[ekchris139]

Geometry will make the car feel more settled.

Does the rear feel a bit unsteady under hard braking ?

As regarding the set up, the countless full blown megane track cars, ring cars, professional race meganes etc the one thing you never see changed is the brake set up apart from discs and pads but they all still run these calipers. If that's not enough of a selling point I dont know what is

 

[Crazylegs]

Yes mate, really badly as well. I've been told as it has a very light rear end, it's trying to overtake the front but this to me totally unsettles the entire car and a result, I can't push it as hard as I'd like on track. The grip levels on the AD08R were also disappointing although they did fare better than the RE070's this time.

I just can't seem to get it feeling planted and precise, there's always a bit of lean and body roll and the rear feeling like it's trying to overtake the front plus the poor braking modulation. I do think coilovers would help along with a BBK or better pads, but it's hard to know which Coilovers to go for as the car is mainly a road car (daily) for me.

Nitron/Bilstein or Ohlins would be great but they're mega expensive. I'd like a roll cage to help stiffen up the chassis but getting in and out of the car would be a total nightmare.

 

[carl hammond]

As regarding the set up, the countless full blown megane track cars, ring cars, professional race meganes etc the one thing you never see changed is the brake set up apart from discs and pads but they all still run these calipers. If that's not enough of a selling point I dont know what is

The Calipers on Race cars are not the same as those sold on the road cars normally, the Brembo's out the factory on cars are generally the lower end ones (2 piece and heavy), the ones applied to and fitted to full blown race and track cars are generally a mono block caliper (much lighter, up to 60%) and of better quality.

Calipers are not the issue on the DC5, it's characteristics are bvery similar to a DC2 by means of lift off oversteer, the rear unsettles and this is 90% of the time due to alignment issues and not to do with the brakes.

In a car that's got such a light rear you're better off braking in a straight line only, if you are even turning the sheel a bit the back will want to step around on you and will generally feel as if it's trying to overtake the front but this is the oversteer kicking in.

When braking all the force and weight is transferred to the front so if you are braking that late that the car's still slightly unsettled when you are entering the corner it will feel offbalance (I personally like this feeling) but some don't. This can be resolved to an extent by means of a different geo setup and this is why when people ask for others settings they may hate them, what one likes is not going to be for another etc).

Adjustments to camber and toe can deal with such characteristics but the fact the rear is so light means it will always be present to an extent.

Yes mate, really badly as well. I've been told as it has a very light rear end, it's trying to overtake the front but this to me totally unsettles the entire car and a result, I can't push it as hard as I'd like on track. The grip levels on the AD08R were also disappointing although they did fare better than the RE070's this time.

To me this sounds like the tyres were not getting hot enough to grip, I find them very good on track and road, they are very capable which is why so many people use on on many makes and model's of cars, they need to get hot and very sticky, did you come back with much tyre stuck to them and all over the car ?

I just can't seem to get it feeling planted and precise, there's always a bit of lean and body roll and the rear feeling like it's trying to overtake the front plus the poor braking modulation. I do think coilovers would help along with a BBK or better pads, but it's hard to know which Coilovers to go for as the car is mainly a road car (daily) for me.

Nitron/Bilstein or Ohlins would be great but they're mega expensive. I'd like a roll cage to help stiffen up the chassis but getting in and out of the car would be a total nightmare

The body roll on the Mugen Spoon setup you have will be no diff to what I had on my car with that setup, aside from any additional mods you have made as mine was OEM with that suspension setup, the amount of roll gave me massive amounts of confidence as it helped me to register when any lift off oversteer would be encountered, what other parts have you got on the car that could and would impact the chassis?

Coilovers wont help, if anything they will make it worse for you as you wont have that on on on then of switch, by this I mean there is no progression as the flatter the car the harder it is to judge the final switch point at then it's going to step out, with the minimal role obtained when using your current shock and spring combo this is very easy to judge but with coilovers it will grip grip grip then slip and this is when you have to be on the ball to catch it or know if and when it could happen.

I honestly think the problems are a combo of things as below

1) Lack of seat time - the more you drive it and get things up to temp the better, mainly track, road use will give nothing as the roads are not equal to a track so any track focussed setup will not offer confidence on a bumper knackered old road with camber going all over the place

2) Consifence in yourself and the car, there is no way you will be at the level to meet the cars maximum levels (not being rude by saying that) but 99% poss even 100% here are not at that driving level, I am no where near my cars limits, it took me about 7yrs to fully master my DC2 for full driving capabilities with heel and toe etc etc and I still believe there was more to be had. The DC5 I think I am about 60% there (if that) in 3 years and many many sessions on track on a track I have been driving since I was 18.

3) Braking and cornering understanding, by this I don't mean you don't understand them but I mean fully learning and understanding the cars braking and cornering characteristics

4) Getting a geo that offers you what you want and need from the car, this is optimal and a key point, the car for one person will feel fine whereas to another it will feel horrible, my settings wont be for everyone and tbh I am constantly tweaking them and I know I am slower with my new setup as a whole on laps as I need seat time to get to grips with it, but I also know at brands I had 3 points where I was much faster than last year.

The BBK and Coilovers are just more expense on parts that people throw on cars without thinking believing they will answer their prayers, this is not the case, it's trial and error but to master it fully you need it to drive how you feel comfy first then make alterations, the more people throw at a car at once the harder it is to understand the impact of change A, B and C etc.

Hope that all comes across as ok and not rude as I don't mean it too but I have seen so many posts about bad handling DC5's recently I don't get it, it's one of the best FWD handling cars of all time (apart from in the UK on oem suspension as it's to harsh for the UK roads as we all know.

 

[Crazylegs]

Hi Carl, long post that mate so don't really know where to start lol.

Thank you firstly for all the advice, having been in touch with you away from the forum I did try and take the tips on board regarding braking.

Anglesey isn't a massive circuit but it does have a lot of bends and turns, there's a particlarly long straight with a bend and you need to be quite hard on the brakes, it was at this and entrance to the paddock bend where the car felt most unsettled.

As mentioned before, I felt I did try and brake better this time round on straights so as not to unsettle the car but the poor braking combined with the body roll (Rear to front overtaking) and the grip on the day, the car just didn't feel composed enough for me to push it.

On that long straight I've mentioned above, I was having to pullover to the right near the end of the straight most of the time to allow quicker cars to go past me on the left, thus taking the wrong line which didn't help. All the quicker cars behind me were all far more composed and superior on their brakes and handling, once they'd gone past I just couldn't attack bends and turns like they did otherwise I'd have been off the track. If I'd have braked as late and hard as they did I'd have crashed, it's that simple.

I know you weren't having a dig and I do appreciate the comments, and yes I agree I do need more seat time but my car's ability to brake is pi*s poor and so is the handling, I can't explain it any other way. If the DC5 is that good then how come I'm having to approach faster straights and bends far slower than anyone else? I know trackdays aren't a race but I was getting smoked all day by pretty much every other car out there apart from a Vectra and an MX5.

Don't mean to come across as rude but until someone else has driven my car, they won't know what I'm referring to.

 

[Crazylegs]

To add to that as well, I think it was Kevin that said in a previous post that these cars like to be dragged out of bends not pulled so again, I tried to build this into my driving on the day. It helped a few times on some bends but that was generally when I was slower and didn't feel under pressure with cars behind me.

 

[carl hammond]

Hi Carl, long post that mate so don't really know where to start lol.

Thank you firstly for all the advice, having been in touch with you away from the forum I did try and take the tips on board regarding braking.

Anglesey isn't a massive circuit but it does have a lot of bends and turns, there's a particlarly long straight with a bend and you need to be quite hard on the brakes, it was at this and entrance to the paddock bend where the car felt most unsettled.

As mentioned before, I felt I did try and brake better this time round on straights so as not to unsettle the car but the poor braking combined with the body roll (Rear to front overtaking) and the grip on the day, the car just didn't feel composed enough for me to push it.

On that long straight I've mentioned above, I was having to pullover to the right near the end of the straight most of the time to allow quicker cars to go past me on the left, thus taking the wrong line which didn't help. All the quicker cars behind me were all far more composed and superior on their brakes and handling, once they'd gone past I just couldn't attack bends and turns like they did otherwise I'd have been off the track. If I'd have braked as late and hard as they did I'd have crashed, it's that simple.

I know you weren't having a dig and I do appreciate the comments, and yes I agree I do need more seat time but my car's ability to brake is pi*s poor and so is the handling, I can't explain it any other way. If the DC5 is that good then how come I'm having to approach faster straights and bends far slower than anyone else? I know trackdays aren't a race but I was getting smoked all day by pretty much every other car out there apart from a Vectra and an MX5.

Don't mean to come across as rude but until someone else has driven my car, they won't know what I'm referring to.

It's really hard to answer some of this without first hand experience of the car tbh and driving it as you say. Is there no one else from the forum local to you or local enough to meet to get an understanding of it as the last thing to do imo is spend spend spend and end up in the same place (been there and its frustrating as hell).

This however sounds really wrong

"On that long straight I've mentioned above, I was having to pullover to the right near the end of the straight most of the time to allow quicker cars to go past me on the left, thus taking the wrong line which didn't help."

I have always pulled right (on a straight which is the only place cars should be taking you), then you should be back on the racing line for the bend (unless it's an out lap where you've just left the pits). If you're missing the racing line constantly it wont help but is also wrong and you should for example, pulling right, allowing faster cars to pass, pulling back left in time to get a good pace and entry on the racing line for the bend. If the organisers were not hot on this I can see the frustrations as ruins your day and experience.

I think that the fact you were not getting corners correctly (through no fault of your own) will be really impacting on your ability to push the car and get the tyres hot, also if you're off the racing line and having to brake and turn off the line then the car's not where it should be and this also will unsteady the car as you cannot be smooth (or not as smooth as you want and need to be).

Don't worry about the others being faster, if it's the right time to be on the line they have to wait mate. At brands on my last outing I had for the first time ever some Caterhams and even an MX5 pass me. The Catrhams were part of a race team and trying to bully people out their way and the MX5 was a professional race car, professional racing driver and he is Avon Tyres tyre tester and was out trying their new slicks for them, he was silly fast and so good to drive around, he was courteous unlike a lot of the race teams that day.

What were the rules for your day, I believe they should have been pull right if a faster cars coming (or you're flagged to do so), but once they have passed get back on the racing line, if this was not the case or not happening and you were constantly off line then your car wont be as stable as it should be as you'll be constantly on edge looking for others and having to adjust and take awkward tight lines :-(

 

[Crazylegs]

Responded on whatsapp mate rather than spam this thread.