car running lean.. i think

[JDC5]

I think TDi south has mapped my car to run lean! I've done a few datalog runs and it shows im hitting in the 13.00 to 13.70 in the A/F reading when i'm doing like a 3rd gear WOT.

plus.. i've got a few problems with the MIL.

1. P0134 Air/Fuel Ratio (A/F) Sensor (Sensor 1) No Activity Detected

2. P0131 02 Sensor Voltage Low

What the hell is going on with the car.. I've had the supercharger for about a week now... the 1st week was "fine" now the car cuts out on me every time i stop, i neverly crashed the 1st time! and also, its alot "jerky" now, the power is not smooth...

I've been doind dataloggin... and the A/F now reads a constant 14.7 ... ahhhh whats goin on!!!!

I suspect... because the car was running lean, the car was running very hot, the oil temp was on 100-110 every time, maybe this could had fried the sensors.

I mean, surely TDi knows that having a lean car will be dangerous!

Also, I've got the Buddyclub manifold, but i havent got the 02 simulator fitted, could this be another cause of the problem? I mea, i looked at the map, it seems sensor 2 is disable (02 sensor).

really need some help and advise!!

Cheers

Jimmy

 

[MilanoChris]

Your O2 sensor is shagged mate. Get it replaced (£150 ish) then datalog again. If it's still the same then email TDI South the datalog.

You don't need an O2 sim.

 

[JDC5]

ohhh fuck!! that aint what i wanted to hear! lol

£150! that much.. damn.. well could TDi be at fault.. i mean, the car does show its running lean, making the car run alot hotter, thus fry'in the 02 sensor??

is that the sensor before the CAT or after?

Cheers mate

 

[JDC5]

could i swap the two sensors around at all?

how abt the 1st problem... any ideas... abt this CEL P0134 Air/Fuel Ratio (A/F) Sensor (Sensor 1) No Activity Detected

where is the A/F sensor located? i guess i need a new one....?

cheers

 

[MilanoChris]

Both error codes point at the same thing. Replace your O2 sensor and they will go after a ECU reset.

It is on the cat. Are you still running one with the charger? :?

Unfortunately it is a common problem with the DC5. Mine went recently.

 

[JDC5]

oh right.. i see... it was first the 1st code coming up.. now its constantly the 2nd code... its so damn frusrating!!

Yeah.. i had a look under the car and looked towards the cat area.. Yes i have both sensors fitted...buddyclub is a de-cat.. could i swap the sensors around?

I guess its not safe to run the car or even think about driving it hard...?

really... a common problem.. at £150 a pop it shouldnt be!!

Cheers

JD

 

[MilanoChris]

No you can't swap them. I don't know if they affect fueling mate however you are running lean which isn't good.

They don't go that often, mine lasted 65000 miles.

 

[ollie-dc5]

Funny enough, I had 'a/f sensor slow response' come up after my charger was fitted. Had to replace the O2 sensor. (The front and back ones can't be swapped+you don't need O2 sim) Both your codes relate to your O2 sensor so will go when you replace it. Seem to remember my A/F being at 11.5 ish when it was being mapped, so yours does seem abit lean. Yours being stuck at 14.7 now would suggest to me that is the last reading before it broke.

I might be completely wrong with this next statement, but I remember reading something about closed loop and open loop. Your ECU runs in open loop when the O2 sensor is working properly as it's getting feedback, and your engine will run as it is meant to. But when the O2 sensor stops working and stops giving the ECU feedback, the ECU will run in closed loop, which I think is where the ECU guesses at what the A/F should be at the given conditions, and therefore the engine will not run as smoothe as it should do, which is why you are getting jerkyness. I would recommend not pushing it too hard, until your sensor is replaced. Technical boffins please confirm.

I also had another MIL come up at the same time. Can't remember the name but was to do with 'emissions error checking', but found out that the sensor in question is not used on the DC5 type r, only the US RSX. Somehow the function on the ECU had turned on when the car was mapped for the charger. Just incase this also happens to you :wink:

You will need to buy the proper Honda O2 sensor. People have tried to get cheaper ones that are available from elsewhere and have turned out to be the wrong ones.

Ollie

 

[JDC5]

hey Ollie.. i was about to send ya a PM lol

Yeah... its a real shame this is happening... I'm shocked to thing TDi would map a car to run lean.. who mapped ur car mate?

I've spoke to pudski who has been very helpful, and we both looked at my datalog.. when i was doin the 3rd WOT, its started off reading 11.5is.. then as the rev increased it was goin up to say 12.. then at abt 4-5k it was reading in the 13 area.. which is lean! to make it less lean i just need to add more fuel right?

i even did a datalog of me doing my normal driving.. and throughtout the datalog there are signs of 13 a/f reading everywhere!

so being in close-loop.. the ecu is guessing what to do.. ok.. im gettin it now.. its alot to take in.. im a newbie to all this! lol

so the 02 sim is dead... which means the a/f reading is goin up and down its just the ecu is not picking it up..rite?

will give honda a call on monday... my call is goin back in on monday to tdi aswell... i bet they wil tell me the car is running fine.. its a good thing i can datalog, plus i've got a copy of my map lol

Cheers ollie

JD

 

[JDC5]

No you can't swap them. I don't know if they affect fueling mate however you are running lean which isn't good.

They don't go that often, mine lasted 65000 miles.

mate.. my car only has 37k(ish) on the clock!! lol..

do u have the part number by any chance?

Cheers

Jimmy

 

[ollie-dc5]

Yep, your O2 sensor, aka 'Primary Lambda sensor' (the one nearest the manifold) is not working, so is not detecting the change in A/F ratio. Your ECU is fine. When you change the sensor all should be fine. Yes you need to add more fuel, but needs to be done professionally. If you attempt this yourself you can do alot of damage to your engine. I had mine mapped by Romain at TGM. He is very good at this and I've had no problems.

 

[pudski]

When in closed loop the ecu will add and take out fuel where needed on part throttle and tickover, however when tps is 100% it goes into open loop where it reads of the map only.
With the o2 sensor not working the car cant get a reading so is in open loop and just using your map. That is the reason why your car is jerky and cuts out. Your part throttle map needs tweeking :wink:

 

[ollie-dc5]

There you go, knew it was something like that.

 

[AndyBITR]

Replace your O2 sensor. END OF!! :!: It might hurt your wallet a wee bit now, but it's cheaper than a cooked engine. :roll:

Also you're basing your A/F datalogs on a cuffed sensor, so adding/removing fuel from the map based on those readings may not be what you actually need!!

 

[JDC5]

Replace your O2 sensor. END OF!! :!: It might hurt your wallet a wee bit now, but it's cheaper than a cooked engine. :roll:

Also you're basing your A/F datalogs on a cuffed sensor, so adding/removing fuel from the map based on those readings may not be what you actually need!!

hey andy

I wish it was that simply... its not "END OF".. mate, i've been throught so much stress with TDI.. i brought a new sensor as they told me it was faulty, NOW they say.. sorry it aint the sensor its gota be the wiring!! so that me short of £300ish in my pocket as i had to pay for their damn labour charge!
So they said to me, right, book the car in so we can fix the wiring, I got the car back today.. a guess what! the ****** told me it aint the wiring so its all fine, now thats another £100 out of my pocket for them to give me two wrong suggestion and i had to pay for it!!! they NOW are sayin its the ECU, they say that the 02 sensor controller is screwed! they said book the car in again, I told them! NO, enough is enough! i aint paying no more, its like they are robbing me!!

THB, tdi south cocked up on my cousins car and now they are doing this! its not on at all.. i wont be using them again, the prices are a rip off!!

I'm fed up wit it all... im like £400 out of pocket for all this... how the hell can it be the ECU!! RANT OVER!

so mate.. its not the END OF mate.. its gettin to the stage where i think what the fuck is goin on... I'm paying all this money for what, for some1 to say oh sorry, we made a mistake, its still not fixed!!

they have tweeked the map to run rich and in open loop all the time.. but with out the A/F reading... Im fucked!!

So can i buy an aftermarket A/F controller to connect to the serial ports in the Kpro ECU?

JD

 

[logik]

Wow mate, sorry to see this stuff happening to you. It is a bit crazy that they recommend one thing only to recommend another.

 

[Grangey]

jesus man, welcome to the world of cars! shit goes wrong, its costs money to replace, i suggest you go buy a bike if you were thinking it wouldnt happen to you. TDI are only human, and if all signs point to an o2 sensor as everyone here has already suggested, then naturally thats what theyl replace and want to be paid for it! if that doesnt fix the problem, then naturally the next think to replace is the wiring, and of corse will want to be paid for that. again if that doesnt work, then they can only relate it back to the ecu which is where they're at now.

Dont go slating a company when they are doing their jobs, they are not gods, they cannot touch a car and it talks back to them for it to say "i have this broken" they have to trace errors as best they can, starting from the simplest, and going to the most complicated which is exactly what they have done.

 

[JDC5]

jesus man, welcome to the world of cars! excrement goes wrong, its costs money to replace, i suggest you go buy a bike if you were thinking it wouldnt happen to you. TDI are only human, and if all signs point to an o2 sensor as everyone here has already suggested, then naturally thats what theyl replace and want to be paid for it! if that doesnt fix the problem, then naturally the next think to replace is the wiring, and of corse will want to be paid for that. again if that doesnt work, then they can only relate it back to the ecu which is where they're at now.

Dont go slating a company when they are doing their jobs, they are not gods, they cannot touch a car and it talks back to them for it to say "i have this broken" they have to trace errors as best they can, starting from the simplest, and going to the most complicated which is exactly what they have done.

Mate... I've got a bike already! 15gears! have you??

Look if your going throught the stress im going throught i think u would understand better... I'm entitled to my own opinion about TDi South now, Yes the guys are just doing there job, but every since i had the charger fitted there alot of problems have came up.. my knowledge about the ECU and more techincal stuff is very limited and rely on TDi's advice...

I should have used my common sense and got my map, loaded it up in my cousins Kpro, tested it on my car and taken it from there, now i knw in the future not to trust companies as much, they are out to rob your hard earn money.. to them we are just small fish only.. they have bigger customers so what do they care..

 

[Grangey]

jesus man, welcome to the world of cars! excrement goes wrong, its costs money to replace, i suggest you go buy a bike if you were thinking it wouldnt happen to you. TDI are only human, and if all signs point to an o2 sensor as everyone here has already suggested, then naturally thats what theyl replace and want to be paid for it! if that doesnt fix the problem, then naturally the next think to replace is the wiring, and of corse will want to be paid for that. again if that doesnt work, then they can only relate it back to the ecu which is where they're at now.

Dont go slating a company when they are doing their jobs, they are not gods, they cannot touch a car and it talks back to them for it to say "i have this broken" they have to trace errors as best they can, starting from the simplest, and going to the most complicated which is exactly what they have done.

Look if your going throught the stress im going throught i think u would understand better...

Firstly dude I have been the type of stress you've been through if not worse, so i dont understand where you're comming from but you also need to see the reason behind it.

now i knw in the future not to trust companies as much, they are out to rob your hard earn money.. to them we are just small fish only.. they have bigger customers so what do they care..

So what you're saying is they have customers that come in every day and build a 20k track car so they dont need your custom? you must be high on petrol fumes. All businesses like them rely on repeat business an especially business like yours. I have never used TDi in my life but I have heard good things about them generally and they are doing absolutly no different to what any other garage would do so I dont see how they deserve to be slated for it?! Maybe you should get the work done at Honda themselves then we'll see which bill hurts more and who gets the work done quicker.

 

[tron2k3]

So was the new o2 sensor actually fitted and tested?