DC5 For Circuit car

[Weel]

Hi,
Looking at selling up my eg6 circuit car and moving to dc5. I am after infomation on weak points of the car which will need upgrading.
I will be running 2002 JDM DC5 Type-R, as for mods I will baffle sump, K-Pro ecu, 5.1FD and Plate diff, braided brake lines and race pads and fluid using stock brembo equipment, and run double adjustable shocks with high spring rates.
Is there anything I should be concerned about which the car

I only ask as when I built my eg6 I made costly mistakes, So I am hoping to get a dc5 already caged and ready or almost ready to race.

 

[MJ Type-R]

Hummmmmmmmm there are lots of issues with the DC5... especially if you want a 'good' race car !! it's an expensive process to solve all the issues... I'm doing it, never again!

If I had my time again... I'd made a EK4/9 into a race car... better chassis, suspension system etc etc... and will be cheaper !

Sorry.. I can't be that specific...

Mike

 

[Weel]

Hi, are you sure you cant explain abit more, are you talking all the issues with suspension/chassis pretty much needing remounting like real time racing did? Surely cant be that bad how it is, just run 2000+lbs in the rear and 1000lbs in front?

This is my eg6

 

We dont have ANY problems at all making DC5s both FAST and HANDLE WELL. :?

Neither did many other race teams in the recent past at ALL levels.?

Maybe it is something to do with the parts that people use ?

:idea: Just a thought...

Paul,
Buddyclub.

 

[Weel]

I see alot of people running dc5 and can be quick, so what works and what doesnt?

 

Weel,
Bring your car to us to perform our suspension modifications (some of which we do not sell as parts), this seems to work,

Doing it yourself by trial and error doesnt seem to work,(and costs you more in the long run)

If you are not in the UK we can put you in contact with one of our European dealers who can set up your car with only reccomended parts.

Regards,
Paul,
Buddyclub.

 

[C&S Evo7]

which parts of your suspension modifications do you not sell Paul? I always thought you "Sold every part we used"??


Weel,
There are also other other tuners in the UK who can perform modifications that will make your car competitive, there is also enough information here if you look hard enough to be able to do it yourself.

 

[Weel]

I thought there would be alot of infomation, if there is its not easy to find reguarding suspension changes. I am not in UK. All I have found is that I need to run twice as hard in the rear as the front, and to invert the steering tie rods. I would love pictures how RTR and comptech remounted rear suspension

 

[MJ Type-R]

I'm not going to get into a public debate....

Just stating, and it's fact, converting a EK4/9 or DC2 into a 'good' competitive race car.. is far easier, and cheaper

Mike

 

[C&S Evo7]

inverting tie rods depends on ride height, twice as hard front is news to me, who are RTR and comptech ? in circuit racing?

many of the regs here require use of oem pickup points.

what country are you in?

 

Si,
You are correct, chassis pick up points must remain the same in most MSA series regs...but ! we can change other things. We do sell lots of off the shelf do it yourself racing parts but,,
We dont sell Modified and re-manufactured rose jointed front and rear control arms and hubs as an off the shelf product, but we do modify customers arms and hubs to give both adjustment and rigidity with some geometrical perameters pre set.. We also adjust the hub carrier and balljoint pivot position to be off centre by a secret amount,and also lower the centre of gravity.We adjust the perpendicular angle of the shock absorber also by set perameters to compensate for this, We change the length of the steering rack, we can make adjustable vertically sliding ends for the steering arms to make the bump angle adjustable. All these mods are essential on a racing DC5 chassis, and all BTCC cars run these kind of modifications although the dynamics and measurements or how we do it are not disclosed.We also supply a wide body kit to cover it all up

There are hundreds of modifications on a race car beyond what is available over the counter for the DIYer,, and we can provide them all ,its just down to budget at the end of the day, and it isnt as expensive making a chassis go round a track fast as it is for that last 25bhp on your engine. and i can tell you all from experience that the bespoke chassis mods are the most effective.

We tested a normal DC5 2.0cc engine (250bhp)around Snetterton in 2008 (1:21 best) and it was only between one or two seconds per lap slower than the normal average times of our 300bhp TA engine (1:19 best) in 2008. we made further chassis modifications in 2009 and got into 1:17s with the same TA engine.....

Now if you compare that to the posted Nippon or TA results on line you will see that it is the chassis that makes the most difference.

P.S.Si if your knocking about at any test days come and give our chassis a spin (if you still have your licence?).ring me!!

Regards,
Paul,

 

[alucardo]

I'm not going to get into a public debate....

Just stating, and it's fact, converting a EK4/9 or DC2 into a 'good' competitive race car.. is far easier, and cheaper

Mike

Agree.....There was a dc2 with a k20 that went or 7k on the dc2 forum that was in the nippon challenge
also stepping away from japanese

http://www.itr-dc2.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ight=track Leon Cupra Cup Racer 11750

Depends on how much you want to spend.

 

[Paul G]

I think one of the down sides of the DC5 is it's lack of double wishbone's ....You can get over the poor set up to some point with VERY hard springs -eg the geo can't change if the wheels don't move up & down...But that's just a cover up for poor design & can be fun in the wet :shock:

The DC5 can be a fast car, but IMO need's more £££ than to set up a DC2, etc...

And then there's the weight - Your going to have to be dedicated to get that down ( or weigh about 5kgs :xlol: ).

Paul.

 

Paul,
Your partially right mate, Double wishbone as a concept of design is cheeper to make work and DC5s are more expensive to modify. But you dont need to stop the suspension working to make McPherson struts work either, you just need to put them at the right attitude to the track where it matters, and there isnt much difference between angle of attack on most fast corners after we have modified things as the wheels never move much from base setting value as the suspension compresses. I personally like racing in the wet and we just simply back a few settings off , when you look at the lap times of wet and dry times on the same tyres you will see that there is only 2 seconds or so per mile difference !! thats only about 20 yards or so. Do you have any comparisons of the difference between your dry and wet times, or any comparisons for Double wishbone cars (remember the same tyres must be used^^)

Weight of everything including the driver is a very big and probably the most important issue in any form of racing...

:xcheers:

 

[tomlin]

paul where are yous based any way

 

UK,
Preston, Lancashire.

 

[lockwood77]

I guess it depends how much you have, what class you're in and therefore what you're racing against. Here's the detail on BuddyClub's Time Attack car, originally a Japanese touring car winner prepped in Asia using a Honda motorsport body etc. Click :arrow: Banzai article on BCUK Time Attack car

That obviously took a lot of work and isn't the sort of thing you could build up from a stock road car without several tens of thousands of pounds (not least as the base car is direct from Honda motorsport). Spot welded chassis, wider track, significant aero modifications including the brake cooling stuff - not really the same as sticking on a few uprated parts and a rollcage!

Paul, will you be offering the same spec in your "customer racing car" this year? That would be awesome. If not, what will the differences be? How close would a customer get to the sorts of times you made last year (driver standards notwithstanding)?

 

[Weel]

So Paul what mods have you made? It seem like you havent just bolted on some circuit upgrades and got good results. I am loooking for a car that I can put some koni 2812 shocks in good pads and fluid, cage,close gear kit, and tune and run for a while

 

Lockwood,
You are correct, our shell was welded up by Mugen, but we found in 2008 that the ATCS spec wasnt good enough for Time Attack as ATCS is a restricted spec and TA isnt. So we stripped back to the shell and started again.We changed everything exept the empty shell (and that excludes doors and boot)and the rear std trailing arms and the lights.
The rest was changed, including doors,boot,glass,hood,petrol system,all hoses and wiring,dash,seats,brakes and lines,hubs,front arms,rack,subframe,engine,exhaust cat back,intake manifold,TB,Induction system,rack,radiator,gearbox,diff,clutch,etc.

You can see from our Championship win that our changes made the difference.at some circuits it was 2 seconds per lap faster in 2009 than in 2008.

The Hire car will have the same basic spec as our current wide body TA car but a few things such as cage will be more rigid and suspension will be stronger and better with more advanced external adjustments. so yes anyone will be able to experience the shattering performance for themselves.

We can also put any of our mods or P1-Racing parts onto your cars,no problem.

Hope that clears a few things up.
Regards,
Paul,

 

[Weel]

Okay, enough about suspension, it seems in 2010 alot of people are trying DC5/RSX again and making it work for them without relocating suspension points.

Is there anything the k20a needs to be reliable, I have heard s2000 oil pump, baffled sumped, re con gearbox.