It'll be this one then:
http://www.itr-dc5.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ight=#2563
...and Trung first posted the vids :wink:
http://www.itr-dc5.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ight=#2563
...and Trung first posted the vids :wink:
dc5 vs dc2
- Thread starter mo typer
- Start date
dan the man
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bloody hell..DTM being asked for advice! Ill feel proud to add my input guys, didnt think i had summed it up that good myself but there ya go..and someone on DC2 forum said the same when i gave a review on DC5..said it was best he had seen etc..'SJ_Skyline said:Dan,
I think we need to encase your opinion in glass and make it semi-sticky :wink:
Seriously - I think it is one of the more common questions asked on the board so I would like to include it in the FAQ section but I need you to condense it a little bit if possible
Please drop me a PM if you have a few spare moments to do this
TIA,
Rich
what im gona do is wash the dc2 and take her for a blast one night this week, as so used to the dc5 after driving her for 4 days solid the dc2 will feel less familiarl....and the cracks and pros should all appear!
keep u posted. dan 8)
I had both together for a few months last year after my DC5 arrived. Someone asked the question on the Honda Revs forum and here's what I posted on there (November 04). Some of it answers questions that were asked on that thread but I cba to filter them out.
The one thing that I'd add to this was that although both cars were taxed and insured for the time I had them both, I never drove the DC2 out of choice instead of the DC5.
Full H-R thread here
---
Bought a DC2 brand new in March 99 and sold it last week. New DC5 arrived at the end of August. Can't profess to know the intimate behaviour of either car on the limit. I haven't had the DC5 that long, and I never drove the DC2 on a track.
Comparing the two cars in the main areas of importance as I'd rank them...
Steering: Personally I don't think the DC2 steering is up to much. It's too low geared and makes the car feel a bit slow-witted, particularly in tighter corners. It also feels a bit light, but then I haven't binned the PAS like some people on here. I suppose it never survived comparison with the Elise I test drove jon the same day. The DC5's is higher-geared and a bit heavier, which I like. Feel is about the same, and the DC5 does not feel at all like an EP3 to me.
Handling: I'm a relatively reserved and risk-averse amateur, but the DC2 moves around a lot more on its suspension & tyres (much more compliance from the 15"s) than the DC5. This is probably one of the main reasons why people find the DC2 more involving. Putting bigger rims on the DC2 will lose this to an extent (dependent on size & weight) and personally I wouldn't go bigger than 16s. You also need to bear in mind that unless the DC2 has been re-bushed then it will be even more 'mobile' than when new, as they do go soft over time. The DC5 feels more businesslike and has more grip, but feels more 'digital' compared to the 'organic' DC2. It's no video game though, it's stiffer and tramlines more on the bigger rims. Overall you're going faster for less effort, which might be for you... Or not.
Engine: Both fantastic, but the K20a has much more torque and a smoother delivery. There's still a 'pre-VTEC dip' which feels like a minor 'clearing of the throat' before getting down to business. This might go away with more mileage, but I'll probably tune it and get an ECU & re-map before it gets the chance...
Gearbox: Both fantastic. DC2 has a shorter and firmer change action and the 'box itself is more audible in terms of whine & general 'noises off'. Feels more racerish as a result. I think this contributes to the 'DC2 magic', but the DC5 has a 6-speed box... The first time I really booted it through the gears I thought the clutch was slipping, because the drop in revs between ratios is so much smaller. This makes it easier to keep it in VTEC, which combined with the extra torque should make it more accelerative in everyday driving.
Size: not much in it although the DC5 does feel a bit wider and higher, slightly less 'threadable', although this could be down to my personal paranoia, driving a new motor that I don't want to scrape... The DC2 felt massive when I first got it, probably for the same reason
Noise etc: DC2 is much noisier at low engine speeds and on the motorway. The DC5 is generally more refined but it's no gin palace and is quite loud in VTEC - I'd argue that it's a better compromise because it's quieter when you'd want it to be and still a bit lairy when you're booting it. You can always add more rort with an aftermarket exhaust and/or induction kit if you like.
Styling: personal thing, no point in commenting other than to say that the DC5 is miles ahead in terms of interior quality, but if this was top of the priority list then you'd be buying something from VAG anyway. And neither of mine had red seats...
Practicality: both relatively cheap to run for the performance on offer, and massive space in the back for carting your crap about. My DC2 was as near a perfect owenrship experience as it could have been - it never let me down in 5.5 years and only needed consumable items replaced. Absolutely faultless.
Well there you go. Sorry about the tome and for lacking Russell Bulgin's insight! Both cars are brilliant and it comes down to how much money you want to spend and what you're going to use it for. The DC5 suits me better because it's a daily driver, I do a lot of motorway, some A&B-road stuff and no track (yet). It's miles better than the DC2 on the motorway and at least as good off it (but different). In VFM terms, when you remember that you're looking at half the money to buy, and particularly as a second car or track tool, the DC2 is unbeatable. I loved my DC2 to bits, but I don't really miss it as I think what I've replaced it with is even better. And that is saying something.
HTH
Evs
---
Thanks for all the kind comments guys, glad that was of some use.
A couple more things to mention...
Handling: The standard wheels on the DC5 are too heavy and the OEM tyres (Bridgestone RE040 on mine) feel quite hard. This makes the car feel a bit wooden, which is quite a contrast to the DC2. The tyres aren't up to much in the wet either imho. I replaced these with some Rota C10s and S-03s and this made a big difference - the car feels much more supple and responsive and I think it handles much better, especially on bumpy roads. There's more wet grip too. I stuck with 17s but there's a guy on the DC5 forum who's gone to 16s and says they've improved response a lot.
Throttle response: The DC2 is extremely sharp, the DC5 feels slightly less so, and with the extra torque, just ever so slightly 'light pressure turbo' in comparison although this might be unfair given the mileage (a tight 2k-miler vs a nicely run-in 70k-miler) and it might also be a function of conservative emissions-friendly mapping. I'm planning some breathing mods and an ECU (Hondata, AEM or one of the new mappable Spoon ones) which should improve this.
As I said before they're both brilliant cars and it all comes down to how much money you want to spend really. I feel really lucky to be able to drive a DC5, but if I had to get a less expensive car for whatever reason I'd just go straight back to a DC2. It just wouldn't occur to me to get anything else.
Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide mate...
Evs
Sorry just realised that was a bit of a screed. Hope it was useful :?
The one thing that I'd add to this was that although both cars were taxed and insured for the time I had them both, I never drove the DC2 out of choice instead of the DC5.
Full H-R thread here
---
Bought a DC2 brand new in March 99 and sold it last week. New DC5 arrived at the end of August. Can't profess to know the intimate behaviour of either car on the limit. I haven't had the DC5 that long, and I never drove the DC2 on a track.
Comparing the two cars in the main areas of importance as I'd rank them...
Steering: Personally I don't think the DC2 steering is up to much. It's too low geared and makes the car feel a bit slow-witted, particularly in tighter corners. It also feels a bit light, but then I haven't binned the PAS like some people on here. I suppose it never survived comparison with the Elise I test drove jon the same day. The DC5's is higher-geared and a bit heavier, which I like. Feel is about the same, and the DC5 does not feel at all like an EP3 to me.
Handling: I'm a relatively reserved and risk-averse amateur, but the DC2 moves around a lot more on its suspension & tyres (much more compliance from the 15"s) than the DC5. This is probably one of the main reasons why people find the DC2 more involving. Putting bigger rims on the DC2 will lose this to an extent (dependent on size & weight) and personally I wouldn't go bigger than 16s. You also need to bear in mind that unless the DC2 has been re-bushed then it will be even more 'mobile' than when new, as they do go soft over time. The DC5 feels more businesslike and has more grip, but feels more 'digital' compared to the 'organic' DC2. It's no video game though, it's stiffer and tramlines more on the bigger rims. Overall you're going faster for less effort, which might be for you... Or not.
Engine: Both fantastic, but the K20a has much more torque and a smoother delivery. There's still a 'pre-VTEC dip' which feels like a minor 'clearing of the throat' before getting down to business. This might go away with more mileage, but I'll probably tune it and get an ECU & re-map before it gets the chance...
Gearbox: Both fantastic. DC2 has a shorter and firmer change action and the 'box itself is more audible in terms of whine & general 'noises off'. Feels more racerish as a result. I think this contributes to the 'DC2 magic', but the DC5 has a 6-speed box... The first time I really booted it through the gears I thought the clutch was slipping, because the drop in revs between ratios is so much smaller. This makes it easier to keep it in VTEC, which combined with the extra torque should make it more accelerative in everyday driving.
Size: not much in it although the DC5 does feel a bit wider and higher, slightly less 'threadable', although this could be down to my personal paranoia, driving a new motor that I don't want to scrape... The DC2 felt massive when I first got it, probably for the same reason
Noise etc: DC2 is much noisier at low engine speeds and on the motorway. The DC5 is generally more refined but it's no gin palace and is quite loud in VTEC - I'd argue that it's a better compromise because it's quieter when you'd want it to be and still a bit lairy when you're booting it. You can always add more rort with an aftermarket exhaust and/or induction kit if you like.
Styling: personal thing, no point in commenting other than to say that the DC5 is miles ahead in terms of interior quality, but if this was top of the priority list then you'd be buying something from VAG anyway. And neither of mine had red seats...
Practicality: both relatively cheap to run for the performance on offer, and massive space in the back for carting your crap about. My DC2 was as near a perfect owenrship experience as it could have been - it never let me down in 5.5 years and only needed consumable items replaced. Absolutely faultless.
Well there you go. Sorry about the tome and for lacking Russell Bulgin's insight! Both cars are brilliant and it comes down to how much money you want to spend and what you're going to use it for. The DC5 suits me better because it's a daily driver, I do a lot of motorway, some A&B-road stuff and no track (yet). It's miles better than the DC2 on the motorway and at least as good off it (but different). In VFM terms, when you remember that you're looking at half the money to buy, and particularly as a second car or track tool, the DC2 is unbeatable. I loved my DC2 to bits, but I don't really miss it as I think what I've replaced it with is even better. And that is saying something.
HTH
Evs
---
Thanks for all the kind comments guys, glad that was of some use.
A couple more things to mention...
Handling: The standard wheels on the DC5 are too heavy and the OEM tyres (Bridgestone RE040 on mine) feel quite hard. This makes the car feel a bit wooden, which is quite a contrast to the DC2. The tyres aren't up to much in the wet either imho. I replaced these with some Rota C10s and S-03s and this made a big difference - the car feels much more supple and responsive and I think it handles much better, especially on bumpy roads. There's more wet grip too. I stuck with 17s but there's a guy on the DC5 forum who's gone to 16s and says they've improved response a lot.
Throttle response: The DC2 is extremely sharp, the DC5 feels slightly less so, and with the extra torque, just ever so slightly 'light pressure turbo' in comparison although this might be unfair given the mileage (a tight 2k-miler vs a nicely run-in 70k-miler) and it might also be a function of conservative emissions-friendly mapping. I'm planning some breathing mods and an ECU (Hondata, AEM or one of the new mappable Spoon ones) which should improve this.
As I said before they're both brilliant cars and it all comes down to how much money you want to spend really. I feel really lucky to be able to drive a DC5, but if I had to get a less expensive car for whatever reason I'd just go straight back to a DC2. It just wouldn't occur to me to get anything else.
Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide mate...
Evs
Sorry just realised that was a bit of a screed.
Hope it was useful :?
dan the man
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- 3,682
evs mate that is bang on.
STICKY MODS
all that sums it up more and more...like the organic vs digital comment..its hard to describe unless u drive them!
and went out in dc2 last night and dc5 tonight and both just brilliant...the dc5s torque does its thing and the 6 cogs like u say. and i went over a bumpy road ive been on loads in the dc2 and it JUST coped, tires are kumhos which are soft and u can feel them moving about at big speed manoovers..buyt once u get used to it u flow etc...would be very hard on the briggestones, although id love to try some as no slop or loss in control input :!:
and steering is lighter in dc2..i think i said other way round b4..althought straight ahead dc2 feels very 'loose'
dtm :? have i done the right thing........ hellyeah
STICKY MODS
all that sums it up more and more...like the organic vs digital comment..its hard to describe unless u drive them!
and went out in dc2 last night and dc5 tonight and both just brilliant...the dc5s torque does its thing and the 6 cogs like u say. and i went over a bumpy road ive been on loads in the dc2 and it JUST coped, tires are kumhos which are soft and u can feel them moving about at big speed manoovers..buyt once u get used to it u flow etc...would be very hard on the briggestones, although id love to try some as no slop or loss in control input :!:
and steering is lighter in dc2..i think i said other way round b4..althought straight ahead dc2 feels very 'loose'
dtm :? have i done the right thing........
hellyeahCheers Dan xthumbup
There was a thread on the DC2 forum about this - made me laugh tbh as most of the DC2 owners seemed to be arguing that the DC2 was the best thing since sliced bread - and I suppose it was - but few if any had actually driven a DC5... :roll: Great bunch of blokes on there, don't get me wrong, but a bit partisan at times... :wink:
I think you just have to try both cars and see what you think. Some people have made the move and are very happy. Others have tried (or even bought) a DC5 and decided they prefer the DC2 after all. I'm in the first camp but completely understand anyone who had tried both and preferred the DC2. Some aspects of the DC5 are a bit disappointing compared to the DC2 but you can sort this with a few choice mods, and you're working with a much better platform - more modern design, stiffer shell, 2.0litres, 6sp box, etc. OK so it doesn't have double wishbone suspension, but if it's properly set up, how much does that really matter?
You pays your money...
There was a thread on the DC2 forum about this - made me laugh tbh as most of the DC2 owners seemed to be arguing that the DC2 was the best thing since sliced bread - and I suppose it was - but few if any had actually driven a DC5... :roll: Great bunch of blokes on there, don't get me wrong, but a bit partisan at times... :wink:
I think you just have to try both cars and see what you think. Some people have made the move and are very happy. Others have tried (or even bought) a DC5 and decided they prefer the DC2 after all. I'm in the first camp but completely understand anyone who had tried both and preferred the DC2. Some aspects of the DC5 are a bit disappointing compared to the DC2 but you can sort this with a few choice mods, and you're working with a much better platform - more modern design, stiffer shell, 2.0litres, 6sp box, etc. OK so it doesn't have double wishbone suspension, but if it's properly set up, how much does that really matter?
You pays your money...
dan the man
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way i see it, the DC5 is an awsome car compared to all the others around..clio182, CTR, celica, rx8, meganne225, astra gsi and even 350z and RS !!
last 2 are very good i know but for the drive they are a solid 4star car, its just that the dc2 is always in the background and is one of the greats :!: if it wasnt for that everyone would look at them for what they are more i think. U never hear people saying the old valver was better than the new 172s and 182s etc because it wasnt really so the clios get ace reviews as a great car..which they are.
but DC5s older brother will always be there readdy to say 'son, i was taking corners like that 10 years ago :idea: and i even told my driver to flick into a drift now without him even realising.... :lol: '
But yeah DC2 forum love their DC2S no doubt and so did i, but i fell in love with the looks of a dc5 and new i wasnt going to be driving a ford van in the handling department so took the plunge!
i think when i am older a second play car will be a DC2 tho...u just cant beat a bit of best :wink:
last 2 are very good i know but for the drive they are a solid 4star car, its just that the dc2 is always in the background and is one of the greats :!: if it wasnt for that everyone would look at them for what they are more i think. U never hear people saying the old valver was better than the new 172s and 182s etc because it wasnt really so the clios get ace reviews as a great car..which they are.
but DC5s older brother will always be there readdy to say 'son, i was taking corners like that 10 years ago :idea: and i even told my driver to flick into a drift now without him even realising.... :lol: '
But yeah DC2 forum love their DC2S no doubt and so did i, but i fell in love with the looks of a dc5 and new i wasnt going to be driving a ford van in the handling department so took the plunge!
i think when i am older a second play car will be a DC2 tho...u just cant beat a bit of best :wink:
dan the man
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T666YPR said:It's getting worse :shock: :lol:mikegsi said:dan the man said:
:shock: :wink:
errr :arrow: coat
My 2 cents:
the DC2 is tighter, more agile and more brutal in its power delivery. I had one of the first cars in the UK (Feb 98 ) and I was amazed by what it could do at the price it cost. The factory tyres were good but put a DC2 on Potenza SO2 Pole Position and it could do almost anything. The DC2 brakes are out of this world. I read in a US mag that the braking distance from 70mph is within 1 yard of a BMW M3. The DC2 is a very intense car to drive - every outing is an event.
the DC5 is happier at higher RPMs, has bags of torque low down, has better seats (not sure why but I was never comfy in my DC2 but the DC5 seats are supreme!) but it also has worse fuel economy. It's much more relaxed, not as precise roadholding, and not as much urge at the higher RPMs - you don't feel the VTEC surge at all. The brakes are OK, no match for the DC2 in my opinion. The DC5 is a far more refined drive and perfect now I'm a lot older than when I bought my DC2. I still miss the DC2 though - what a machine it was...
Oh yeah - one last thing: the horn on the DC2 is LAME. The DC5 horn is wonderful.
the DC2 is tighter, more agile and more brutal in its power delivery. I had one of the first cars in the UK (Feb 98 ) and I was amazed by what it could do at the price it cost. The factory tyres were good but put a DC2 on Potenza SO2 Pole Position and it could do almost anything. The DC2 brakes are out of this world. I read in a US mag that the braking distance from 70mph is within 1 yard of a BMW M3. The DC2 is a very intense car to drive - every outing is an event.
the DC5 is happier at higher RPMs, has bags of torque low down, has better seats (not sure why but I was never comfy in my DC2 but the DC5 seats are supreme!) but it also has worse fuel economy. It's much more relaxed, not as precise roadholding, and not as much urge at the higher RPMs - you don't feel the VTEC surge at all. The brakes are OK, no match for the DC2 in my opinion. The DC5 is a far more refined drive and perfect now I'm a lot older than when I bought my DC2. I still miss the DC2 though - what a machine it was...
Oh yeah - one last thing: the horn on the DC2 is LAME. The DC5 horn is wonderful.
Type R - Matt
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Id disagree with your comments regarding the brakes, they are good, but they desperatly needed some cold air ducting, warped many a set :!:
dan the man
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crxvtec said:
not sure about higher rpms..DC2 seems to bang in to 9k wheras dc5 seems to get harsher and less onit up there i feel.....
seats are the same but i am comfier in DC5...think its the height off the floor and how your leg muscles are contaracted or not as pushed into your hips....
brakes ill agree, dc2 are fabulous, inital, mid and end bite all amazing and lasted me on track all day standard set up... but dc5s are harder work, u have to excert a lot of pressure it seems and if not carefull end up closer to the back of someone than u were thinking (getting my fluid changed tomoz so see if it changes...)
tyre choise i dunno.... re010s are dogs in dry and ive had s02s too...hmm.....
dan