dyno disappointment

[integraleo]

Only worth comparing dyno figures from same dyno. Unless running a 3" exhaust system eurospec tuned ep3s and dc5s rarely top 240 bhp with all the bolt ons, in fact even with a 3" exhaust mine topped out at 238.5 (226 with my regu06r exhaust)
The same tune at tdi north would sail past 240 with ease and quite a number go above 250. It's all just numbers at the end of the day but it did get annoying when I would say my car with full bolt ons was less than 230 bhp and the tdi north boys would claim there was something wrong with my car to only hit those numbers

 

[Rom]

Only worth comparing dyno figures from same dyno. Unless running a 3" exhaust system eurospec tuned ep3s and dc5s rarely top 240 bhp with all the bolt ons, in fact even with a 3" exhaust mine topped out at 238.5 (226 with my regu06r exhaust)
The same tune at tdi north would sail past 240 with ease and quite a number go above 250. It's all just numbers at the end of the day but it did get annoying when I would say my car with full bolt ons was less than 230 bhp and the tdi north boys would claim there was something wrong with my car to only hit those numbers

You are spot on, you cant compare dynos. So the whole Tdi over read debate will never be answered.

I took a couple of snippets of info away with me as ive already said which helps support the figures. The injector duty cycles are what they are. They wouldnt be maxed out if it was only running 230-240.

Again Leo, it seems Euro do all the runs in 4th, as its closer to 1:1. Though looking at the specs, i think 5th is closer to 1:1. Anyway, there was 10 bhp more in 5th than 4th on my runs. If all Tdi runs are 5th....and all Euro are 4th. You can expect the same sort of % difference from that alone.

 

[Rob82]

Mine was mapped at euro spec which made 244bhp that's with dc sports race header,dc sports exhaust,rbc inlet and tegiwa induction kit.

 

[integraleo]

Mine was mapped at euro spec which made 244bhp that's with dc sports race header,dc sports exhaust,rbc inlet and tegiwa induction kit.

I said rarely not impossible lol. If you run that at tdi north you will touch 260 there.

 

[Rob82]

Maybe I should go to tdi to feel like I have more powerlol.

What matters is your car runs properly not about how much power you have.

 

[Rom]

Mine was mapped at euro spec which made 244bhp that's with dc sports race header,dc sports exhaust,rbc inlet and tegiwa induction kit.

In 4th i guess ? So a 5th run might see 250-255. The shock, the horror. How could Euro read so wrong ?!

Sounds similar spec (but different brands) to mine. My 250 (in 4th) is laughed at as Tdi over read. Yet Euro can make 244 and thats fine. Got to love the internet.

 

[integraleo]

Here's my mods and power all at eurospec
Rbc,injen,dc sports mani,trust exhaust 229
Rbc,injen,dc sports mani,solid fab 3" 238.5
Rbc,teg m,dc sports mani,regu06r 226
Jrsc,teg m,dc sports mani,regu06r 308

Just to add 244 is very rare at eurospec with bolt ons. Last year's dyno day had around 15 Tegs in various states of tune and if I remember correctly there was one car with higher output than my 226 which had virtually identical mods to mine and he hit 231 I think after Romain had given his map a tweak. Romain also said some of the 5 hp difference could be down to the fact the dyno had an hour to cool down after all the power runs

 

[Rob82]

Some cars are going to be different on power some make more than others i will get my grath up as I don't know if it's in 4th or 5th.

 

[Rom]

Some cars are going to be different on power some make more than others i will get my grath up as I don't know if it's in 4th or 5th.

Graph wont tell you i doubt. Ive not seen any from Euro that show speed.
I have a graph with 4th and 5th overlayed.

As said, its all kind of irrelevant anyway. There is no way of ever proving one way or another. They are different mappers, and different dynos.
But for me TDI was the obvious choice. But from what Ive learnt, it seems all Euro runs are in 4th gear, and Tdi are in 5th gear. That for me is another 10 bhp. So if everyone has a 4th gear run @ Euro thats maybe 10bhp 'lost'

Taken from Most powerful NA thread...All over 250, all not done at Tdi...

DC5Dub07 - 255.3BHP 169.9 lb/ft torque Ai Autosports NI - Kpro, Gruppe M, RBC, DC sports header, 5ziegen catback.
Rob84 - 254bhp, 172.9lb/ft - Unit 8 mapped, K-Pro, RBC with Hondata inlet gasket, Gruppe M, BC Pro Spec cat-back
jay82 - 253.3bhp (162.8 lb/ft torque) Ai Autosports 4/03/10 - Kpro, GM, RBC, DC sports header, mugen twinloop
Mark_teg - 253.2bhp (168 lb/ft) - Eightspeed 20/07/10 - Kpro, GruppeM, RBC with Hondata gasket, DC header, Spoon B-pipe, OEM Backbox
Neil_integra - 253hp (179lb/ft torque) 19.02.08 Kpro, Mugen manifold, mugen sports cat, mugen twinloop, AEM CAI, skimmed head, toda high compression head gasket, hondata intake manifold gasket, RBC intake + 440 injectors.
Turbo5 -250.9bhp (170.9lb/ft) Dasteck Mark @ unit 8. 4/5/10 Kpro, Gruppe M, Mugen manifold with Mugen sports cat, RBC intake, hondata heatshield gasket, Toda exhaust.

As long as you are happy with the car, how it drives, and happy with any improvement made when mapped. Thats the important thing. And that you keep using the same dyno if you want to measure gains from mods etc.

 

[beppe786]

people should go read dotty build thread from 2011

tdi north 250HP - Surrey Rolling Road 211HP

dyno reads happy. lol but its just a number.. as long as it performs well

 

[Mebz]

It appears more people care about 'pub figures' than they would like to admit.

As long as the dyno you use is consistent and repeatable; high figures, low figures, right figures don't matter.

 

[Rom]

Its not so much the numbers that interest me, as the debate between the places. I wasnt expecting to make anywhere near what i did, and I said to Paul before he started i just wanted the car to drive nice, and power be more usable.

I mean people actually think the dyno just reads 40 bhp over ? Theres nothing else to it, its that simple. So when the dyno can produce very similar figures to another, what then. Say a Mugen engine, dyno'd by mugen. That makes stock power on the wonder dyno. Why isnt it pushing an extra 40 bhp ?
Or the fact that Tdi map for Spoon, Honda, Aerial, etc. They must all go to Tdi for the free inflated figures i guess.

As usual, very little facts are given, the whole conversation boils down to 'yeah but Tdi over read, my mate said so'

Im not saying either is wrong or right, but what is offered by the Euro camp. Other than blaming Tdis rollers. No one seems to have noticed they dyno in completely different gears ?! Infact most people dont even know what gear was used.

As infamous for over reading as Tdi is...SRR is for being the 'Heartbreaker'.

 

[kazmo]

so lets all have a dyno day at the same place, i bought my car from up north, it had a dyno sheet @ 251hp from tdi north, i chucked it on euro spec rollers just 5 weeks after the date on the tdi run and it made 223hp ..
northerners, over inflated.....

 

[Rob82]

sorry guys i was 2bhp out it was 242.

Here's the graph i don't think it shows what gear it was in.

 

[mil1lion]

Can't you just ask TDI to run it in 4th as well then? :xgrin:

 

[Rom]

Can't you just ask TDI to run it in 4th as well then? :xgrin:

They do.
Mine was 10bhp less in 4th than 5th. 250 i made in 4th. So only 8bhp more than a very similar spec of Robs did at Euro.
His being DC sports and Tegiwa, mine Buddyclub and J's. Which could easily account for the difference.

Or maybe Euro had a TDI sort of day and over read for Rob. That would keep everyone who made lower power happy i guess.

 

[pulpmelon_r]

TDI norths figures always seem stupidly high. Best going back to the previous dyno if its a power number your really interested in

Well

I took my brand new bone stock mazda to TDI a few years ago.

Book figure was 263hp (US Imperial horsepower @ the crank) for this vehicle

After 3 runs It saw 264hp on their dyno.

Just sayin

 

[James-T]

200bhp in reality then. :xwavey:

Just sayin

 

[pulpmelon_r]

200bhp in reality then. :xwavey:

Just sayin

FYI

I am Troll proof... 'untrollable' if you will.

 

[James-T]

FYI

I am Troll proof... 'untrollable' if you will.

Say what?