Engine Failure

[Adz]

Hi All,

Not posted on here for some time, partly due to my DC5 behaving as it should do.
I've had the car for 7 years and it's not missed a beat.. until today..

After dropping out of a 20 second stint of Vtec'ing I noticed a horrible hollow clatter @ around 2-3,000 rpm.. that nasty bottom end kind of sound. I pulled over and had the car recovered. Two independent mechanics have both said the words 'big end', and 'expensive' #-o

Really interested to know if you guys have any advice about having a rebuild or any other issues with the K20A that could produce similar sounds? Also if a rebuild is the only option is there any other work/modifications that would be worth doing at the same time?

The clatter is not present during tickover and disappears somewhere above 3,000 rpm..
Oil levels we're fine btw.

Any help more than appreciated!

Adam

 

[VT-Doo]

Sounds about right for it to be the big end. If the big end is away you'll notice a noise as you let off the throttle...that is the piston kissing the underside of the head.

There is only one thing you can do and that's rebuild it.

 

[Adz]

As I feared! Honda has quoted £4000 for a rebuild.... so thats pretty much a write off to be honest.

Is there ANYTHING else that could cause a similar noise? One garage has mentioned something about a problem with the variable valve system that could cause some of the valves to clatter against the pistons in a similar way? :-k

Adam

 

[The Lum]

I'd have thought somewhere like TGM or that could do a rebuild or a replace for less than that.

 

[eXceed]

Could import a fully built engine from US for that price!!! 300bhp out the box as well :s

 

[The Lum]

Bit off topic but shows slightly how dealers think.

I had a Toyota MR2 Roadster before the Integra. The engine went pop in it and Toyota wanted £8k for an engine for it. Plus another £2k for fitting. I had only paid £4k for the car. Couldnt beleive it. Makes me laugh though as I got a reconned engine for £1k and paid £350 for a straight swap. Even got £50 back from scrap man for the engine block.

I now work for BMW and think its funny I could order a 2999cc engine from them for the same as the 1800cc from Toyota.

 

[VT-Doo]

Take the engine out yourself. Drop it off at "reputable" engine builder for a rebuild. Once rebuilt refit the engine yourself. Job done!


To even go anywhere near a dealer for a quote is showing your lack of knowledge. I think you should phone TGM or somewhere similar for a push-in drive-out quote.


Also, without a video or seeing the car it's car to tell from your description what is actually wrong with the car.

 

[C&S Evo7]

There are usually two main reasons this can hPpen
-an over-rev situation causes the rod bolts to stretch a little so it becomes oval this in turn causes the bearing to turn and self destruct
-no oil on the bearing runs it dry and it self destructs ( normally causing more damage)

If you are lucky as i was only the bearing was damaged , crank and rods were fine. I would suggest getting the car to TGM for an inspection. If it can be saved he is the guy who will.

 

[Adz]

Thanks for your help guys. Ian your right it was ignorant of me to even ask Honda. I'd spoken to a number of garages and even an engineering company locally and none of them would touch it?? So I thought speaking to Honda might at least give me a worse case senario of what I'm looking at.. They certainly did that!
I rang TGM yesterday but Tom was busy, no heard back yet so I'll ring them again now.
I have some experience with removing and refitting of engines and have a pretty well tooled workshop.. However I have no experience working on the Teg's engine. I'll have a route through the DIY section of the forum and see if I can get some more info on removal/refit?

I'll let you know what the outcome is!
Thanks again,
Adam

 

[VT-Doo]

Take the engine out yourself. Drop it off at "reputable" engine builder for a rebuild. Once rebuilt refit the engine yourself. Job done!

I have some experience with removing and refitting of engines and have a pretty well tooled workshop.. However I have no experience working on the Teg's engine. I'll have a route through the DIY section of the forum and see if I can get some more info on removal/refit?

xthumbup

It's the way to go!
Removing the engine is simple. Start with the bumper, exhaust, manifold, air intake, radiator, AC pipes/radiator, and front crossmember.
If you've at least some experience removing engines you'll be fine. The hardest part IMO is removing the drive-shafts as the nuts and bolts in the suspension tend to seize.

 

[C&S Evo7]

I would not remove the engine until I had looked at the bearings which only requires removal of the sump. It may well be that new bearings can be fitted and nothing else. This was the case for me. I heard the noise and kept it easy until I could get transport to a garage. When we removed the sump the bearing was gone but crank and rods undamaged . New bearing fitted and hey presto we were away.
That same engine after that did 30+k of road miles 2 and a half years of time attack and numerous test and track days with out a murmur . My advice don't jump straight in to engine removal it is a big job

 

[dave c]

Seems like some good advise in this thread already, top work from the clever ones slightly un-related but couldn't you claim it off the insurance? Thats what its there for isn't it?

Dave

 

[Stoo]

Seems like some good advise in this thread already, top work from the clever ones slightly un-related but couldn't you claim it off the insurance? Thats what its there for isn't it?

Dave

I'm not sure mechanical failures are covered Dave?? :S

 

[Adz]

Good advice! Had the car up on the ramps today..
Big end shell had spun and starved the piston of oil. Fortunately there we're no large hunks of metal in the sump! The Crank is mirror clean and the conrod itself seems to look ok. Going to try putting a new big end shell on and see what happens.. Fingers crossed! Although there did feel like quite a lot of movement on around crank when we first opened her up, so I just hope the rod hasn't worn.....