My car decided to cut out randomly on a good run, then refused to start until cold or wont start after driving and stopping... Here is my Experience, otherwise you can skip to the handy breakdown of the Symptoms, Diagnosis and Fix further down.
This was a very unusual problem that may affect others due to the issue that caused it and hopefully be a solution to anyone else with a similar problem.
My Experience:
Driving home one day up the M5 when the car completely cut out, dash lights still on but no engine power at all. Ended up on the hard shoulder for a good half hour where I had to call the RAC out because the car wouldn't start at all. RAC man arrived, car started up fine, lol.
RAC man followed me home and the car cut out again! Ended up being towed to Garage and having a diagnosis of possible Crank Sensor Problem to which they couldn't guarantee would fix it (No EML/Fault Codes) and they couldn't replicate the fault on a test drive.
I decided not to let them change the Sensor but instead take out the bonnet alarm sensor which had been playing up because of lack of contact with the bonnet.
Problem, to my knowledge had now gone for a whole two months until recently.
Bristol Honda Meet, Met up with Matt at M5 Services (Tiverton) Car decided to die at the services, car had refused to start again! So couldn't make the meet and ended up with the RAC again following me home.
Got home fine this time, but half hour later, I went to start the car up to move into the garage and NOTHING! Frustrating. Another half hour and the car started fine.
After much chat with lots of other lovely members giving very helpful ideas and suggestions to what it might be, Si (CS&EVO) offered to come over to help me with the issue, brought along some replacement sensors/relays courtesy of Tom @ TGM.
Si and Claire were kind enough to follow me up and down the Motorway until the car broke down.... .which it never did! REALLY frustrating.
Si changed the Crank Sensor just to be sure and car was working absolutely fine, he left and within 5 minutes of him leaving, the car stopped working!!! He came back after a quick call and the car magically started working again. By this time we were all scratching our heads and getting very very frustrated, lol. He Also changed the Fuel/Main Relay just in case and everything was working fine again, fingers crossed it was now fixed!
Few days later, I decided to take the car for a test run and it ended up cutting out again at the exact same location as last time (M5 Services), this is when I then noticed that the Fuel Pump was no longer priming. Another call to Si and he told me to leave the car, lock it and come back to it. I did and the car magically started up first time.... interesting! Came to the conclusion that the Fuel Pump may have a fault, or indeed something is up with the Alarm system.
Another day passes, I decide to take the interior apart and look at the wires that lead to the pump and check all connections to the alarm etc, this is what I ended up doing:
Everything seemed ok, until I eventually found the location of the Cobra immobiliser/alarm system. It was Glued down to the metal floor of the car, infront of the gear stick mechanism and underneath the carpet. This rang a few alarm bells to me, that area is directly above the exhaust and would be prone to getting really hot surely? I prised the units off the silicone they were stuck down with and moved them to one side. This way, I can test that area for heat and see if the alarm is affected.
Only way to find out now was to test it, another drive to the Services, stopped the car and went to start it again, immediately it died and wouldn't start (Fuel Pump not Priming). I locked the car again, walked away for just a minute and came back to it and it started first time. This lead me to think something was seriously wrong with the immobiliser system.
Drove home again and didn't break down (thank god!) my interior had wires all over the place and looked like I had stolen it, lol.
It's only when I got home I remembered to test the temperature in the area the immobiliser was mounted, as soon as I pulled up, I felt that area and it was very warm, 5 minutes later of sitting that area was now VERY HOT to the touch! Interesting! Car however, was starting up fine as the Immobiliser was no longer getting excessively hot.
Another few message back and forth with friends etc and we came to the conclusion the Immobiliser must be at fault, Si guided me through how to bypass the Fuel Pump circuit and I snipped those wires and bridged the original fuel pump wires back together. Car now starts first time EVERY time, it's been 3 days of constant testing, back to services 3-4 times and almost 2 complete tanks of fuel and no more problems! RESULT!
So I put interior back together but the Immobiliser/Alarm no longer sits on the hot metal surface, it now sits above resting on the carpet so it shouldn't corrupt the circuitry any more!
I need to sort out replacing that unit but for now, the damn thing works without a problem, relief isn't the word!
So the cause was (I'm assuming) excess heat damage to the circuitry in the Immobiliser, possible fractured circuit/solder joint that would connect and disconnect with expansion/contraction the Fuel Pumps power. What a nightmare, lol, especially as the Immobiliser is a completely sealed unit. But just goes to show how reliable Honda's really are, the problem was not with the Honda but the After market alarm being installed in a daft place.
Many years of long trips (and the few track days!) had eventually heated up the Immobiliser to the point of partial/intermittent failure.
Anyway, hope this helps others with similar problems! Check the location of your Immobiliser/Alarm and make sure it's NOT mounted to the metal floor above the exhaust, this could be a potential problem for many others if left unchecked.
For some reason or other, my car feels to have made quite a few more horses, It really is pulling a lot better now, idling a lot better and just seems a happier chap, most strange! Pump is also louder on priming and seems more urgent in delivery. Happy days
Again big thanks to everyone who contributed
Symptoms:
Car cuts out while driving, dash lights remain on, no EML and car will crank but splutter and die then wont start at all until cold. Can be completely random, sometimes every day, other times once every 2 months, Fuel Pump sometimes will not prime.
Diagnosis:
Cobra 8509 Immobiliser at fault due to circuitry damage by excessive heat at mounted location. Immobiliser was mounted under the carpet, infront of the gear stick mechanism and silicone glued to the metal floor where excessive exhaust heat builds from underneath. When hot or cold, a connection would be made/dropped and power to the fuel pump would be interrupted/restored.
Fix:
Bypass of the Immobiliser Fuel Pump Circuitry or possible complete replacement of Immobiliser unit and unmount from the metal floor.
This was a very unusual problem that may affect others due to the issue that caused it and hopefully be a solution to anyone else with a similar problem.
My Experience:
Driving home one day up the M5 when the car completely cut out, dash lights still on but no engine power at all. Ended up on the hard shoulder for a good half hour where I had to call the RAC out because the car wouldn't start at all. RAC man arrived, car started up fine, lol.
RAC man followed me home and the car cut out again! Ended up being towed to Garage and having a diagnosis of possible Crank Sensor Problem to which they couldn't guarantee would fix it (No EML/Fault Codes) and they couldn't replicate the fault on a test drive.
I decided not to let them change the Sensor but instead take out the bonnet alarm sensor which had been playing up because of lack of contact with the bonnet.
Problem, to my knowledge had now gone for a whole two months until recently.
Bristol Honda Meet, Met up with Matt at M5 Services (Tiverton) Car decided to die at the services, car had refused to start again! So couldn't make the meet and ended up with the RAC again following me home.
Got home fine this time, but half hour later, I went to start the car up to move into the garage and NOTHING! Frustrating. Another half hour and the car started fine.
After much chat with lots of other lovely members giving very helpful ideas and suggestions to what it might be, Si (CS&EVO) offered to come over to help me with the issue, brought along some replacement sensors/relays courtesy of Tom @ TGM.
Si and Claire were kind enough to follow me up and down the Motorway until the car broke down.... .which it never did! REALLY frustrating.
Si changed the Crank Sensor just to be sure and car was working absolutely fine, he left and within 5 minutes of him leaving, the car stopped working!!! He came back after a quick call and the car magically started working again. By this time we were all scratching our heads and getting very very frustrated, lol. He Also changed the Fuel/Main Relay just in case and everything was working fine again, fingers crossed it was now fixed!
Few days later, I decided to take the car for a test run and it ended up cutting out again at the exact same location as last time (M5 Services), this is when I then noticed that the Fuel Pump was no longer priming. Another call to Si and he told me to leave the car, lock it and come back to it. I did and the car magically started up first time.... interesting! Came to the conclusion that the Fuel Pump may have a fault, or indeed something is up with the Alarm system.
Another day passes, I decide to take the interior apart and look at the wires that lead to the pump and check all connections to the alarm etc, this is what I ended up doing:
Everything seemed ok, until I eventually found the location of the Cobra immobiliser/alarm system. It was Glued down to the metal floor of the car, infront of the gear stick mechanism and underneath the carpet. This rang a few alarm bells to me, that area is directly above the exhaust and would be prone to getting really hot surely? I prised the units off the silicone they were stuck down with and moved them to one side. This way, I can test that area for heat and see if the alarm is affected.
Only way to find out now was to test it, another drive to the Services, stopped the car and went to start it again, immediately it died and wouldn't start (Fuel Pump not Priming). I locked the car again, walked away for just a minute and came back to it and it started first time. This lead me to think something was seriously wrong with the immobiliser system.
Drove home again and didn't break down (thank god!) my interior had wires all over the place and looked like I had stolen it, lol.
It's only when I got home I remembered to test the temperature in the area the immobiliser was mounted, as soon as I pulled up, I felt that area and it was very warm, 5 minutes later of sitting that area was now VERY HOT to the touch! Interesting! Car however, was starting up fine as the Immobiliser was no longer getting excessively hot.
Another few message back and forth with friends etc and we came to the conclusion the Immobiliser must be at fault, Si guided me through how to bypass the Fuel Pump circuit and I snipped those wires and bridged the original fuel pump wires back together. Car now starts first time EVERY time, it's been 3 days of constant testing, back to services 3-4 times and almost 2 complete tanks of fuel and no more problems! RESULT!
So I put interior back together but the Immobiliser/Alarm no longer sits on the hot metal surface, it now sits above resting on the carpet so it shouldn't corrupt the circuitry any more!
I need to sort out replacing that unit but for now, the damn thing works without a problem, relief isn't the word!
So the cause was (I'm assuming) excess heat damage to the circuitry in the Immobiliser, possible fractured circuit/solder joint that would connect and disconnect with expansion/contraction the Fuel Pumps power. What a nightmare, lol, especially as the Immobiliser is a completely sealed unit. But just goes to show how reliable Honda's really are, the problem was not with the Honda but the After market alarm being installed in a daft place.
Many years of long trips (and the few track days!) had eventually heated up the Immobiliser to the point of partial/intermittent failure.
Anyway, hope this helps others with similar problems! Check the location of your Immobiliser/Alarm and make sure it's NOT mounted to the metal floor above the exhaust, this could be a potential problem for many others if left unchecked.
For some reason or other, my car feels to have made quite a few more horses, It really is pulling a lot better now, idling a lot better and just seems a happier chap, most strange! Pump is also louder on priming and seems more urgent in delivery. Happy days
Again big thanks to everyone who contributed
Symptoms:
Car cuts out while driving, dash lights remain on, no EML and car will crank but splutter and die then wont start at all until cold. Can be completely random, sometimes every day, other times once every 2 months, Fuel Pump sometimes will not prime.
Diagnosis:
Cobra 8509 Immobiliser at fault due to circuitry damage by excessive heat at mounted location. Immobiliser was mounted under the carpet, infront of the gear stick mechanism and silicone glued to the metal floor where excessive exhaust heat builds from underneath. When hot or cold, a connection would be made/dropped and power to the fuel pump would be interrupted/restored.
Fix:
Bypass of the Immobiliser Fuel Pump Circuitry or possible complete replacement of Immobiliser unit and unmount from the metal floor.
