Gruppe M and Mugen on a dyno

MilanoChris

Advanced Member
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5,649
Has anyone done a back to back run? Or anyone moved between the intakes and have thoughts? The GM can be quite noisy on track and I know of at least one person who has been black flagged due to it. So I may be interested in swapping my intake for a Mugen and reverting the scuttle to OEM.

Thoughts and experiences appreciated.
 

adam.

Advanced Member
Messages
762
In the same predicament here too, would be interested in the results.

My K20 really came alive once I'd fitted the FakeM and GruppeM scuttle.

Got the naughty-noise board last time I was out at Bedford, and short-shifting spoils the fun.
 

MilanoChris

Advanced Member
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5,649
Does that actually happen? Warnings for induction noise?
Yes. Doesn't matter which end the noise comes out of, if you upset the sound guys or set off built in systems you'll get black flagged. The GM has been known to cause issues at some tracks.
 

Mark_teg

Moderator
Staff member
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4,361
Back to back, yes. On different cars though.

Car 1 - DC Sports Ex Mani, Kakimoto Regu 06&R, Kpro, RBC, GruppeM (might have been a Tegiwa actually..)

Car 2 - DC Sports Ex Mani, Kakimoto Regu 06&R, Kpro, RBC, Mugen Intake + forward facing scoop (I forget the brand)

Car 1 made 226bhp peak, Car 2 made 230bhp peak. Both were mapped on same day (one after the other), same dyno, same mapper.

So basically, nothing in it! I've had both and Mugen was my preference due to the discreet sound and better fitment, no rattling scuttles!
Car 2 was mine btw :)
 

MilanoChris

Advanced Member
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5,649
I thought I would update this in case anyone is looking in the future.

Essentially my car was mapped by Romain many years ago and it made 247 I think on his dyno. I then changed the intake from a Gruppe M to a Mugen and the exhaust from DC to RM01A.

The car then went on another rolling road before mapping.

The rev numbers are all skewiff, the mapper did explain why but it went over my head. But the torque and bhp curves are true. Here's the before dyno, as you can see it isn't overly smooth and a little lumpy, there's also flat spots which I sometimes noticed on the road.



Here's after mapping.



You can see that it's much, much smoother and the difference in the torque curve is night and day. Rich told me the previous map was too rich as well. So, a 10-15 bhp gain on the Owen Developments dyno, with a bit of man maths would suggest it's knocking on 260 bhp on Romains dyno.

Try and not read into the numbers too much.

To be honest, too many factors have changed and who knows, once a Gruppe M goes on and it's mapped again maybe that would make more numbers? I am not sure, but thought someone may be interested in an update.
 

Kenz

Advanced Member
Messages
534
Nice update Chris. I think the mugen intake is often over looked by many.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Linus27

Advanced Member
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753
Chris, I've spoken to Tom a few times about the Gruppe M and he says he has seen some bad results from them after mapping. I'm really happy with my AEM V2 and they tend to get good results. Especially as on track you have constant cold air going into the engine bay. I still might get a cold air pipe fitted.
 

2ndy

Advanced Member
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1,015
Dyno numbers are daft, no point going by numbers, to get a real 260bhp out of a k20 they would either need internal work or a charger
 

MilanoChris

Advanced Member
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5,649
Dyno numbers are daft, no point going by numbers, to get a real 260bhp out of a k20 they would either need internal work or a charger
I know, my comment is tongue in cheek with all the supposed 250+ bhp numbers that are floating around.
 

MilanoChris

Advanced Member
Messages
5,649
Chris, I've spoken to Tom a few times about the Gruppe M and he says he has seen some bad results from them after mapping. I'm really happy with my AEM V2 and they tend to get good results. Especially as on track you have constant cold air going into the engine bay. I still might get a cold air pipe fitted.
Yeah I have heard similar about the Gruppe M. End of the day, 90% of most aftermarket intakes are going to be the same. Contrary to forum opinion, the OEM box is actually quite good. Plus you cannot simulate on road airflow and throttle response on a dyno using a fan!
 
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