Gruppe M & mapping

[linzi94]

seeing as my heads in a pickle over this and doing a search didnt help matters.... can some one - anyone - with a gruppe m and a full exhaust system please tell me:

A) what management you have

B) what gains over standard did you get - with or without management

C) any graphs to proove it.

a few guys on my forum suggested a DTA S60 over the Kpro and one guy even said there was no point spending any money at all :?

help!

 

[rick c]

The DC5 engine responds very well to mods and I'm sure there'll be plenty of people on here soon with graphs aplenty to prove it.

The issue of whether or not its necessary to mod the DC5 engine is rather more debated. Engine mods are always at the bottom of the list for improving track performance, after suspension, tyres and brakes. How much ultimately will an extra 10-15bhp add to the driving experience? Probably not much. You'll certainly notice an extra 10bhp, but (IMO) only as much as you'd notice if you took your back seats out.

20bhp + will always be noticeable but you'll need to go the full hog with an RBC intake manifold also, and the effect will be less dramatic if you choose to mod your car in stages.

I always modify the exhaust and intake system on my cars because ultimately its fairly cheap and adds a lot to the aural experience, though not so much to the performance. However with the DC5 I may decide to go for it simply because its just an easy car to improve the performance of.

 

[fonz600]

Do you have a manifold as well?

I ran a full Spoon mani and exhaust on my DC5 and did a RR day and fuelling was fine.
Added the GruppeM and it ran lean and I lost power.

I'd go with Kpro as it's reasonably easy to map without a dyno for safety and if you want the extra few BHP a dyno will fine tune it.

Also with Kpro you can alter your cam angles and lower your VTEC point which is where you really see the gains.

 

[MilanoChris]

Are you planning on getting a header at some point?

 

[linzi94]

i have a full spoon n1 (4-2, 2-1 decat, b-pipe and b/box) and have the gruppe m to fit. have an AEM CAI just now and when RR'd it was running lean.

so i dont want to just fire the gruppe m on with the possibility of it running like a bag of spanners.... also, i cant help think the kpro mybe has too many facilities for my requirements as, i dont plan spending any more cash on performance mods... i just need the car to run to its best potential with what i have.

 

[tron2k3]

I previously had a GruppeM, cat back HKS and Kpro fitted. It made just over 230bhp on the Dyno but I instantly felt more power throughout the rev range especially in the middle due to vtec changeover kicking in at 4500rpm.

I then had a Toda header fitted along with a Toda exhaust and got 245bhp, but again felt a lot more power throughout the midrange, it's not all about the top end power its about the smooth delivery and linear power throughout the range which is the huge benefit of kpro.

My last dyno graph below. I have the Gruppem, HKS and kpro graph somewhere.

 

[MilanoChris]

i have a full spoon n1 (4-2, 2-1 decat, b-pipe and b/box) and have the gruppe m to fit. have an AEM CAI just now and when RR'd it was running lean.

so i dont want to just fire the gruppe m on with the possibility of it running like a bag of spanners.... also, i cant help think the kpro mybe has too many facilities for my requirements as, i dont plan spending any more cash on performance mods... i just need the car to run to its best potential with what i have.

I would seriously consider the KPRO if I was you.

 

[fonz600]

I would get Kpro Linzi.
You basically got what I had and it ran too lean and lost power.
You could probably get a Unichip if all your concerned with is your fueling but honestly the option of changing your cam angles, moving your vtec crossover and being able to tweak it yourself makes it a far better mod.

 

[Frazdog]

I have a Gruppe M and have been discussing with Linzi what if any i need to do before fitting it Without the Exhaust! will i need to do anything if i fit it or again should i invest in the Kpro? Linzi i have a feeling we will just need to get the Kpro!! :roll:

Its a hard life eh!
:roll:

We will get to the bottom eventually but Kpro is calling!!

 

[Allen]

From what ive always read... Intake and exhuast is fine without Kpro.
Once a header is fitted is when it starts to run lean? :?

 

[linzi94]

I have a Gruppe M and have been discussing with Linzi what if any i need to do before fitting it Without the Exhaust! will i need to do anything if i fit it or again should i invest in the Kpro? Linzi i have a feeling we will just need to get the Kpro!! :roll:

Its a hard life eh!
:roll:

We will get to the bottom eventually but Kpro is calling!!

eu gosto de a idéia de mudar o vtec entrada

e coma me?

 

[fonz600]

I have a Gruppe M and have been discussing with Linzi what if any i need to do before fitting it Without the Exhaust! will i need to do anything if i fit it or again should i invest in the Kpro? Linzi i have a feeling we will just need to get the Kpro!! :roll:

Its a hard life eh!
:roll:

We will get to the bottom eventually but Kpro is calling!!

If you just have a GruppeM with no manifold or exhaust then you should be fine as they run rich as standard.

 

[George K]

Tron2k3 - was the 245 on the standard inlet manifold? Looks very impressive.

 

[fonz600]

245 is about what I got in my DC5 with same mods as tronk2k3 if I remember right and that was road tuned. With standard inlet manifold.

 

[tron2k3]

Yep same as Fonz standard inlet mani

 

[Frazdog]

si linzi que i entendem!

I gostaria de poder tambem mudar o vtec!

vale entretando aquele £800

obrigado!

I think i would like 1 to though!

 

[linzi94]

this may be off on a tangent re: the graph posted, mybe not....

not wanting to split hairs but i read somewhere about rpm shift, where the two r/r graphs start and end at different rpms and from playing about with the loading on the rollers the numbers can be manipulated

does that not look like whats happening there? if not then the power increase is impressive

 

[tron2k3]

this may be off on a tangent re: the graph posted, mybe not....

not wanting to split hairs but i read somewhere about rpm shift, where the two r/r graphs start and end at different rpms and from playing about with the loading on the rollers the numbers can be manipulated

does that not look like whats happening there? if not then the power increase is impressive

:roll:

 

[tron2k3]

Plenty of evidence in this thread if your pimpin friend believes the results are manipulated. :wink:

http://www.itr-dc5.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1495

 

[fonz600]

this may be off on a tangent re: the graph posted, mybe not....

not wanting to split hairs but i read somewhere about rpm shift, where the two r/r graphs start and end at different rpms and from playing about with the loading on the rollers the numbers can be manipulated

does that not look like whats happening there? if not then the power increase is impressive

He's getting the same power I got at Dastek with my DC5 with the same mods.