HELP!: OEM TPS to Ktuned Hall Effect, Kangaroo, VTEC, lumpy...

[420jamesowen]

Hi Guys,

So when i had a intermittent fault where the EML would come up and my TPS voltage was low. When the EML was on, the car would idle high, and VTEC wouldn't kick in; it would just run like poop. You could clear the fault code and the throttle would become very unresponsive and the car would jerk. I could sometimes clear the fault code and give the car a hard drive and it would fix this and VTEC would be fine. Every now and then it would come back and the above would fix it. I measured the TPS voltages with a multimeter and got 4.45V WOT and 0.41v Closed which seemed fine.

Recently clearing the EML wouldn't fix this so I purchased the K Tuned Hall Effect TPS from Tegiwa. I fitted it and I now get 0.59 closed throttle and 3.57 WOT. The car has no fault codes now. VTEC is back and tbh feels like it pulls harder then ever. The car now kangaroos at low revs between 1k-3k as I let off the throttle and have to use the clutch a bit and floor it to gain life back, but the car will not stall itself. I have cleaned the TB out and it was oily. I have taken my induction kit off and manually closed and fully opened the throttle and it still gives the same voltage readings. I have also moved/turned the TPS to give the lowest voltage reading position. I have reduced the grub screw to try let the throttle close more but it is fully closed. I can't get it to move closer to the grub screw and it looks like the throttle wheel, (my mechanical terms aren't the best my bad the part the cable is hooked into), hits the throttle body when fully open. To me the throttle valve inside is as open and closed as it can go anyway just the voltages aren't coming back as they should.

Tonight I am going to try tighten the throttle cable as it does seem slightly slack, and Ill take a look at the IACV and see if it needs cleaning.

Is there anything else I am missing??

My car engine spec is in my signature.. I have a unichip piggy back ECU not a Kpro know people have fitted this TPS without Kpro. I believe the TB hasn't been mapped to the car since purchased and fitted but would that really be the reason for all this?

 

[wj51fut]

Which TB do you have as I had a nightmare with the Hybrid Racing one.

 

[MilanoChris]

Why didn't you get another OEM TPS?

 

[Darren4]

Which TB do you have as I had a nightmare with the Hybrid Racing one.

Looks like a skunk 2 tb from his sig

 

[420jamesowen]

You can't buy the OEM sensor on its own new and since this was a fault I wanted to get it new and working to prevent any variables. Invested in the £140 sensor as it seems to be the most sturdy one since OEM's are known to fail often with the K20 block.

Got the Skunk2 70mm TB. Fitted by previous owner.

 

[MilanoChris]

Fair enough.

All I will say is that some parts that are rumoured to not last long or be weak compared to aftermarket is usually an internet fallacy and everyone jumps on the bandwagon. Happens a lot with Evo's.

 

[spooke]

It needs to read around 0.50v, the quote is taken from Acuity TPS install guide,

The ECU expects to see a voltage of between 0.48V and 0.5V when the throttle is fully closed. We

recommend calibrating the TPS to 0.48V when closed. If throttle response is poor when gently stepping on

the gas, it may be necessary to calibrate to 0.49V or 0.5V when the throttle is closed. The center wire on

the wiring harness is the signal wire (as shown in Figure 1 below).

If you can't get it to read this then it might be faulty?

 

[kyle'87]

Mine did this when I fitted a Tegiwa blueprint TPS. What I had done was by setting the TPS to the "oem values" was constantly have the TPS "activated" and by that I mean the spring function of the potentiometer was always under a tiny bit of load. This would mean when coming off revs it would kangeroo.

Now, I don't know the design of the Hall effect TPS for K-tuned so not sure if it works the same in terms of how the potentiometer mechanism is sprung but if it is, I would try to just first mount the TPS so no load is on the mechanism, test drive, and then try to calibrate using volts.

You won't ever get the OEM voltages with after market or BP parts because they are after market parts. Hence being able to calibrate CT and WOT in Kpro (if you had one).

 

[420jamesowen]

It needs to read around 0.50v, the quote is taken from Acuity TPS install guide,


If you can't get it to read this then it might be faulty?

Yeah these are the figures I know I need to work to. Hmm I will try the throttle cable and IACV before I start pointing fingers at a faulty brand new TPS but I am baring it in mind.

 

[420jamesowen]

Mine did this when I fitted a Tegiwa blueprint TPS. What I had done was by setting the TPS to the "oem values" was constantly have the TPS "activated" and by that I mean the spring function of the potentiometer was always under a tiny bit of load. This would mean when coming off revs it would kangeroo.

Now, I don't know the design of the Hall effect TPS for K-tuned so not sure if it works the same in terms of how the potentiometer mechanism is sprung but if it is, I would try to just first mount the TPS so no load is on the mechanism, test drive, and then try to calibrate using volts.

You won't ever get the OEM voltages with after market or BP parts because they are after market parts. Hence being able to calibrate CT and WOT in Kpro (if you had one).

Yeah think I understand what you mean I'll try moving the TPS to the other end position it can sit in but Im sure that raised the CT to 0.9v which is why i positioned it as far over the other direction as I could which gave me the 0.59.

 

[420jamesowen]

Can you adjust throttle levers at all? I know the TB has a grub screw to move it forward in one direction but I need to move it the opposite direction as in closer to the grub screw when the TB is in CT

 

[kyle'87]

Yeah think I understand what you mean I'll try moving the TPS to the other end position it can sit in but Im sure that raised the CT to 0.9v which is why i positioned it as far over the other direction as I could which gave me the 0.59.

That is exactly what I did with mine, it caused me more problems chasing the voltage windows than just centering the TPS and living with it until mapped.

 

[kyle'87]

Can you adjust throttle levers at all? I know the TB has a grub screw to move it forward in one direction but I need to move it the opposite direction as in closer to the grub screw when the TB is in CT

From all the reading I have done on the TB, 95% of people said to not touch that grub screw at all.

 

[420jamesowen]

From all the reading I have done on the TB, 95% of people said to not touch that grub screw at all.

My grub screw isnt actually doing anything atm, I reduced it down and now the throttle lever doesnt meet it at all but still makes contact with the body on WOT. In theory to chase the correct voltages I need to adjust the throttle lever closer to the screw. Is this possible? I noticed the nut on my throttle level was very lose when I fitted the new TPS and I tightened it up as the level almost looked angled and sat a small distance from the TB.

 

[kyle'87]

My grub screw isnt actually doing anything atm, I reduced it down and now the throttle lever doesnt meet it at all but still makes contact with the body on WOT. In theory to chase the correct voltages I need to adjust the throttle lever closer to the screw. Is this possible? I noticed the nut on my throttle level was very lose when I fitted the new TPS and I tightened it up as the level almost looked angled and sat a small distance from the TB.

I keep forgetting you have a Skunk 70mm TB. Have a google for setting up the TB and see what you find in regards to getting the butterfly valve to close and open fully. Once it opens correctly then attach the TPS and see if you can get it central then.

 

[420jamesowen]

So I've got an update.
Fully cleaned out the IACV and adjusted my throttle cable.

With the OEM TPS my CT and WOT are correct.

Now with the Ktuned plugged into the loom but NOT fitted to the TB I get 0.57CT and 4.5v WOT. Now when I plug the Ktuned in my CT is still at 0.57 but my WOT only goes to 3.7 (I think it was 3.something and below 3.8!)

Now the OEM gives the correct readings and the K tuned has a high CT but fine WOT when not fitted so how come when I fit it it all goes Pete tong?

Car now runs great if anything she feels better however I now idle at 2.5k cold start and 1.8k when warm. I can actually drive the car like it's an auto and just pull away without using the accelerator just the clutch.

Any advice? I've messaged tegiwa who said they will speak to the manufacturer on Monday?

Think I'm going to get a Kpro and just try have all the parts mapped correctly and working.

 

[kyle'87]

So I've got an update.
Fully cleaned out the IACV and adjusted my throttle cable.

With the OEM TPS my CT and WOT are correct.

Now with the Ktuned plugged into the loom but NOT fitted to the TB I get 0.57CT and 4.5v WOT. Now when I plug the Ktuned in my CT is still at 0.57 but my WOT only goes to 3.7 (I think it was 3.something and below 3.8!)

Now the OEM gives the correct readings and the K tuned has a high CT but fine WOT when not fitted so how come when I fit it it all goes Pete tong?

Car now runs great if anything she feels better however I now idle at 2.5k cold start and 1.8k when warm. I can actually drive the car like it's an auto and just pull away without using the accelerator just the clutch.

Any advice? I've messaged tegiwa who said they will speak to the manufacturer on Monday?

Think I'm going to get a Kpro and just try have all the parts mapped correctly and working.

From the first statement, is that it plugged into the loom or giving it an alternate power source and then back pinning to measure the volts?

My idea from the second statement would be that the actual TB is fully open at 3.7v and so you'll not get 4.5v because it can't open anymore, have you checked to look inside the TB and see what the angle of the butterfly is at 3.7v?

The high idle could be a number of things, and it is difficult to say exactly, especially with the aftermarket throttle body (even though the DC5 ones are problem centres as well lol)

The problem you have is the K-tuned Hall Affect TPS has a fixed lower voltage of 0.57v and on an OEM ECU I wouldn't know how this would respond having something out of scope.

Kpro's are expensive but an awesome bit of kit.


EDIT: To set expectations. I'm on Kpro and cold start is anywhere between 2k and 1.5k and then idle is 900rpm. TPS is set at -0.5% at CT and hits 100% at WOT. Voltages are irrelevant as they are set in Kpro.

 

[420jamesowen]

From the first statement, is that it plugged into the loom or giving it an alternate power source and then back pinning to measure the volts?

My idea from the second statement would be that the actual TB is fully open at 3.7v and so you'll not get 4.5v because it can't open anymore, have you checked to look inside the TB and see what the angle of the butterfly is at 3.7v?

The high idle could be a number of things, and it is difficult to say exactly, especially with the aftermarket throttle body (even though the DC5 ones are problem centres as well lol)

The problem you have is the K-tuned Hall Affect TPS has a fixed lower voltage of 0.57v and on an OEM ECU I wouldn't know how this would respond having something out of scope.

Kpro's are expensive but an awesome bit of kit.


EDIT: To set expectations. I'm on Kpro and cold start is anywhere between 2k and 1.5k and then idle is 900rpm. TPS is set at -0.5% at CT and hits 100% at WOT. Voltages are irrelevant as they are set in Kpro.

Hey Bud,

First line was describing it plugged into the loom but not connected to the TB just to check CT and WOT values on the TPS before it was fitted to the TB to see variables. (Basically checking it wasnt faulty and had the full range available).

At 3.7v the TB is fully open, but the OEM gives the correct voltage return when fully open so I think its a calibration issue? Maybe this can only be done using a KPro.

I've bit the bullet and having Romain fit a new Kpro and map the car on the 13th of Feb. Big bank account hit and means I wont afford Volks this year but I need her working correctly. Shes my 70mile round trip daily.

I have a print out of the unichip piggyback ecu remap at 242.7bhp. Since then the new 70mm TB was fitted, Tegiwa Manifold instead of the DC Sports, Skunk2 Megapower R instead of OEM exhaust. So I am hoping for some power gains, better mpg, and a better running car in general.

 

[MilanoChris]

Look up MrRy's recent posts.

 

[kyle'87]

Hey Bud,

First line was describing it plugged into the loom but not connected to the TB just to check CT and WOT values on the TPS before it was fitted to the TB to see variables. (Basically checking it wasnt faulty and had the full range available).

At 3.7v the TB is fully open, but the OEM gives the correct voltage return when fully open so I think its a calibration issue? Maybe this can only be done using a KPro.

I've bit the bullet and having Romain fit a new Kpro and map the car on the 13th of Feb. Big bank account hit and means I wont afford Volks this year but I need her working correctly. Shes my 70mile round trip daily.

I have a print out of the unichip piggyback ecu remap at 242.7bhp. Since then the new 70mm TB was fitted, Tegiwa Manifold instead of the DC Sports, Skunk2 Megapower R instead of OEM exhaust. So I am hoping for some power gains, better mpg, and a better running car in general.

I think what you are seeing is the different designs giving you different voltages. The OEM TPS probably has a smaller amount of travel in the potentiometer and the Aftermarket has a larger amount of travel hence seeing different voltages when WOT on either part.

I am pretty sure a Kpro fitted and mapped would solve the calibrations issue. Those are a lot of mods AFTER having the uni-chip fitted. I wouldn't expect more power as such but I would 100% expect to see better power across the board. Plus the V4 Kpro Bluetooth option is a great tool, I use mine daily.

In terms of being happy with the map, just make sure you drive it after the map both part throttle and WOT to be 100% with the map. You will know best how it drove before so give it a good going over afterwards.