I can finally say what ecu I am running!!!!

weggy

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150
I have just got it back from Performance Autoworks

I am the proud own of possible the first DC5 to run an autronics SM4 ECU

the drivability is superb and the peak power is now at just under 9,000 rpm when I have got a power graph on the computer I will post it up.

These ECU's are of eqaul spec to a motec for more info speak to Richy or Simon at performance autoworks(see link below).
 

MJ Type-R

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1,578
Hummm...

You should never rev a K series to 9k rpm....

Unless you have had some modifications done to allow this...

Just from what I know..

Mike
 

C&S Evo7

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autronics is the same as aem??


how did you manage with multiplex functions? aircon, temp guage etc??
 

Paul G

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weggy said:
I have just got it back from Performance Autoworks

I am the proud own of possible the first DC5 to run an autronics SM4 ECU

the drivability is superb and the peak power is now at just under 9,000 rpm when I have got a power graph on the computer I will post it up.

These ECU's are of eqaul spec to a motec for more info speak to Richy or Simon at performance autoworks(see link below).
I'v herd good things about these - do you have a before & after graph? / wt mods do you have on the car ??

Thks..
 

C&S Evo7

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why did you go down that route?

unless you want datalogging etc, what is the point with a std engine that still has vtec?
an ecu be it a motec, hondata, aem or autronic is not a magic power upgrade, it can only control what is inside the engine to a degree. all aftermarket ecu s are capable of controling the k20 but none will make anymore power than the next. How can it?

i have been considering upgrading because i want some features that arn't available with the hondata, i.e onboard datalog, and switchable maps etc but am not expecting any more power.
 

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C&S Evo7 said:
i have been considering upgrading because i want some features that arn't available with the hondata, i.e onboard datalog, and switchable maps etc but am not expecting any more power.
OBR EFI (http://www.obr-motorsport.co.uk/). I was using the EURO 1 on my K20 civic but might try the EURO4 for the DC5.

And it has real time mapping (unlike Kpro)
 

ally_mac

Advanced Member
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353
I was told by my local mapper last year that Autronics where developing a ecu for the k20 engine. Autronics is probably one of the best ecu you can get for the likes of the evo etc (along with motec) but i cant see it doing much better than the like of hondata for engine power, as C&S Evo said, they all have similar features so there only so much you can extract from a NA engine. Im guessing it probably cost around the £1500 mark

I apologies if this sounds like im slagging off your ecu, im not, i had orginal considered waiting for the autronics for my dc5 but the possible cost of it compared to hondata put me off. What made you decide to go for it mate
 

timp

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Messages
588
weggy said:
I have just got it back from Performance Autoworks

I am the proud own of possible the first DC5 to run an autronics SM4 ECU

the drivability is superb and the peak power is now at just under 9,000 rpm when I have got a power graph on the computer I will post it up.

These ECU's are of eqaul spec to a motec for more info speak to Richy or Simon at performance autoworks(see link below).
Actually i think its good that someone breaks from the crowd and explores, more feed back for the rest of us.

Personnally i am happy with the Hondata but its interesting to see what else is around.

Lets see the graph when you have it mate :D
 

MJ Type-R

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1,578
timp said:
Actually i think its good that someone breaks from the crowd and explores, more feed back for the rest of us.
I'm the same m8..... I like to see people trying different systems etc...

However, as stated above... I'm more worried for Weggy (Mark) that it appears (I maybe wrong) it was tuned / tested above the OEM rev limit...

I just hope the areas that are known (info on the Internet) which are the weak links in the K series have been dealt with to allow it to rev behind the OEM limit safely, even if it's only at this for short durations..

I hope Richy has done this :?: :?:


Anyway, I'm not 100% sure which ECU system I will be running... It's likely to be very similar to the type the BTTC cars use... the Motec option is a little too expensive.. but has not been discounted as an option..

Mike
 

weggy

Advanced Member
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150
Sorry for the lack of response but work has been crazy and the hassles that the floods bring doesn't help.

As for peoples comments I don't take offence and any constructive comments are welcome as I am developing this ecu with richy and simon for the future so any info is gratefully recieved and will be looked into. As for the rev limit other than the valve springs which is all that mugen recomend for there ECU which has a limit of 9200 where as mine is 9000 and the peak power is possible 8800. And we used the rollers at owen developments with Mark who have done afew k20 engines with motec and he seemed happy that the limit would be fine. This does not mean that I will not check more into this. Does anyone have any links to more info as I am struggling to find any using the search on here and google?

As for the reasons for picking the Autronics is the fact that for the future it is less restrictive than the kpro in a few areas

and I did like the chance to be the first.
 

C&S Evo7

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weggy,
the rev limit of 9000 will be ok but it is a little pointless as i can't beleive you peak power is at 8800 with your mods, remember the ecu has little to do with the rpm at which you acheive peak power, camshaft choice and how well the motor can breath are the critical factors.
i ran with a 9k limiter for ages with no probs as you should not be constantly hitting it (theres no power there anyway) once i started doing serious track work i reduced it to 8600 so still over my peak power point but now when i hit the limiter (which i do a couple of times per session) i know i am not close to the engines phisical limit.
If the rotating assembly is spun faster than 9000 with std springs then valve bounce can occur which really isn't good as they are not opening and closing under control, a simple solution for this from a safety side is to fit s2000 springs but its expensive as the cams have to be removed to do so, it is possible to do it with the head on tho if the special tool is available, both TGM and System R have this.
There is also some stories and speculation that the Honda oil system is not great at that rpm, i have never seen any real evidence myself, its only ever been hearsay, and am personally heavily involved with several extremely competitive dc5's which run in britcar S1 endurance and Tin Tops ,none of which have ever suffered faliures caused by the oil system. The way i see it, if its good at 8600 why should it bo no good at 9000??

what makes you say its less restrictive than kpro?
what happened with the multiplex features, aircon guages etc??
would love to see some datalogs etc. can you post them up? (or email me if you don't want ti public)
 

MJ Type-R

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1,578
The problem with the OEM oil system is not hear say... it's fact from many years development and studies.... the work on this stems from the USA.... endurance race car teams / engine developers...

Unless you really know the full workings of the K series in 'detail' you wouldn't know this.. hence no surprise Owen Developments thought no issue...

Also, as I have said before... Mugen / Spoon / Toda etc parts are designed for 'race' rather than 'road' cars... they tend to stretch the safe working margin.. as parts / engines are replaced more frequently as parts only really need to last one race...

I'm not in a position to tell the full details though.. sorry....

Links to this info (although not fully published) were on this forum a while ago, if I remember correctly..

Mike
 

C&S Evo7

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until evidence is produced in some form in my book it is hearsay

what i said is "I " have never seen any real evidence and other than some individuals views on various forums nothing more than peoples opinions (not just yours Mike). However when you post that you are not in a position to give any details what will people think?? until that time it remains speculation and hearsay. as i'm sure you know I have read plenty on k series tuning, (which is why my motor is std :wink: and not Fi)

The evidence i can produce is that catagorically none of the TGM cars of which there are currently 6 which regularly compete in various endurance events and trackdays have never had any engine problems due to oil system malfunction. 1 of those cars uses the mugen ecu too with std springs. which also did the britcar 24hr last year. and is still going strong.
They all use a baffled sump and otherwise stock oil stystem.
 

MJ Type-R

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C&S Evo7 said:
until evidence is produced in some form in my book it is hearsay

what i said is "I " have never seen any real evidence and other than some individuals views on various forums nothing more than peoples opinions (not just yours Mike). However when you post that you are not in a position to give any details what will people think?? until that time it remains speculation and hearsay. as i'm sure you know I have read plenty on k series tuning, (which is why my motor is std :wink: and not Fi)

The evidence i can produce is that catagorically none of the TGM cars of which there are currently 6 which regularly compete in various endurance events and trackdays have never had any engine problems due to oil system malfunction. 1 of those cars uses the mugen ecu too with std springs. which also did the britcar 24hr last year. and is still going strong.
They all use a baffled sump and otherwise stock oil stystem.
This 'hear say' comes from those that have done 3 years solid research on the K series alone... even before they made any public comment !!

Anyway... I'm lucky to have an insight into this knowledge... just clad they are building my engine taking all the weak areas into consideration and modifying them as needed...

Mike
 

DC5TU

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1,359
Mike, what exactly is the "Uber specced engine" going to be used for??

Bragging rights or competition??

Not being funny, just curious as its been a long time in the making!
 

MJ Type-R

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DC5TU said:
Mike, what exactly is the "Uber specced engine" going to be used for??

Bragging rights or competition??

Not being funny, just curious as its been a long time in the making!
My car is being made for one person... ME..

Primary for trackdays...

Second, it's a show case car for my tuners, so they can show the way NA tuning on the K series can be done, when the engine is considered as a complete system, rather than just bolt on parts...

I'm happy with both, yes it is taking time etc... but will be worth it... I will be in a position once it's done to meet and talk to race teams / speak to Radical.. as they are all already showing keen interest in my engines build...

This should work both ways.. as I'm likely to get invites to tracks and get track driving lessons from experts...

Mike
 

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Sorry Mike - I'm sure you engine will be good when/if it materialises but the rest of this is a load of *.

A few observations.

1. Why has it taken three years? IMHO, they must be doing something wrong :lol: Seriously, motorsport engine building is about building, testing and improving - how many engines have the built and tested to lead to your engine? If they do it properly the development costs must be phenomenal - who is covering the cost. Even the TD BTCC engines only cost £26000 (minus development, of course!)

2. Why have they chosen a non-competitive track day/road car to showcase their engine. Most serious (motorsport) engine builders build an engine/several engines and run and test them competitively where tiny percentages in power and setup will make a difference between winning and losing. I can't see how your car will be a show case - apart from producing a dyno printout - how can anyone including "race teams"! be shown the reliability and it's ability to be competitive in a particular class.

3. As I have said before (which you don't seem to believe!) there are several K20 engine builders in the UK who are developing engines for motorsport ranging from Team Dynamics engine builders to lesser setups. You don't get them splashed all over the these forums as the road market isnt their area but you will find their engines all over motorsport - circuit, rally and even grass track - some pushing excellent reliable power - not using off the shelf parts but custom parts.

4. Is it really worth the wait? I can understand if you were racing and trying to eek out every last 0.1hp and lb/ft torque which might make the difference between winning and losing, but for a road/track car....?

Sorry to be critical - maybe I'm mis-interpreting your posts...

Now I do understand if you can't answer these questions as the answers might be top secret.

Cheers

Mike
 
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