Installing different CAM’s – Information needed??????

[muzzie]

Has anyone installed after market camshafts on their DC5? What work is involved and what other engine internal (valves, spring,) will need to be upgraded to cope with the additional power?

Is this the safest way to increase performance rather than supercharging?

Sorry for all the questions…

 

[Duncs]

well if its your first thing to do then don't,
lots to sort first, exhaust/intake etc
if these are done, then sorry no help

 

[evilowl]

As above it's not worth it unless you already have ECU, exhaust and CAI.

Probably looking at about 5 hours labour costs to do, you would need uprated valve springs.

Have a look at Toda A3's http://www.todaracing.com/products/hond ... hafts.html

and IPS K2's http://www.cplracing.co.uk/products.php ... ails&id=22

 

[muzzie]

Thanks for the reply.

Exhaust installed - Buddy Club spec IV, Intake on order - Gruppem.

In April I will have the cash for a Jackson racing/toda header and Kpro.

Next step cams or SC. Wanted to keep the car N/A, just trying to weigh up cost vs power vs reliability …

 

[evilowl]

Difficult to say on the reliability stakes. Alanb has been running Toda cams and a 9.2k (iirc) rev limit in his CTR for a couple of years now, plenty of people on ClubRSX been running cams for a while.

But then again, plenty more people have been JRSC'd in comparison, so I would hazard a guess that more development miles have been done using the supercharger option.

Cost wise, FI will always be cheaper $$$ per BHP overall.

I have been an NA purist for many many years now, but even I am likely to be turning towards the darkside and going for an 8 PSI kit for my CTR and keeping it for a few more years, rather than have all the hassle of swapping to a DC5 ...considering my current outlay on mods.

 

[MJ Type-R]

Having done the SC route I knew of the pit falls and resultant issues.....

That's why I'm going back to NA.

It's also worth pointing out.... that even with the current aftermarket CAM's you need to ask careful questions as to their long term effect, after these are all 'racing' products for 'race' cars, not for 'street' cars. I would be surprised if anyone in the UK was able to tell you the 'pit' falls though of 'all' current after market cams.......

Mike

 

[Mersey_typeR]

It's also worth pointing out.... that even with the current aftermarket CAM's you need to ask careful questions as to their long term effect, after these are all 'racing' products for 'race' cars, not for 'street' cars. I would be surprised if anyone in the UK was able to tell you the 'pit' falls though of 'all' current after market cams.......

Mike

I was curious about the pitfalls of cams too, as my N2's are due to be fitted in about 1 month. I looked high and low on K20.org and CRSX to see if anyone had issues with them and I couldn't find anything really. Apparently Honda left enough scope for a 10% gain from cams, but no more than that was easy. Hence why IPS K2's, A3's, N2's and A2's all make fairly similar peak power (within 5wbhp of each other). That'd also explain why Toda focused on improving the midrange on the A3's rather than the top end.

I wouldn't bolt a charger to my car if I was paid, read far far too many bad stories there.

Just my opinion on the matter.

 

[Wootty]

Not wanting to start a s/c vs NA thread war but to put my 2 p's worth.

I think your right in as much about it being the ammount of power being generated be it S/C or through cams. Both generate more power by buring more air/fuel, the cams by staying open longer during the cylces and the S/C by forcing air in under pressure. The cams obviousley have an edge in efficiency as the exhaust cycle is improved, where the loads in an S/C exhaust cycle would be higher as the valves are not open longer.

To me it doesn't matter if its S/C or Cams, if your making 230whp then the loads transmitted through the engine are the same - crank, clutch, gearbox etc.

So I guess the main point is to be realistic about it. Its all a trade off between power and engine wear.

If you want to last the full manufacturers expected life then leave it in the garage :lol:

 

[Mersey_typeR]

If you want to last the full manufacturers expected life then leave it in the garage :lol:

Agree completely.

The candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long. :wink:

 

[MJ Type-R]

If fact I have to disagree with that TBH

Well 'engineered' aftermarket parts (very few of those TBH), and with upgrading certain 'weak' asspects of any engine, you will actually find the life of the engine can be extended well above the OEM expection / design life. Even with a increase in performance.

Mike

 

[JiB]

If fact I have to disagree with that TBH

Well 'engineered' aftermarket parts (very few of those TBH), and with upgrading certain 'weak' asspects of any engine, you will actually find the life of the engine can be extended well above the OEM expection / design life. Even with a increase in performance.

Mike

Um, just out of interest, what would be the weak aspect regardning the DC5? And apart from retainers/springs, what else is needed for the TODA A3's? ...If anyone were so kinda as to inform a less informed person? :lol:

 

[dan the man]

other than mike were all less informed it seems :roll:

leaves it open so much as to whats good and whats cack its well hard trying to guess the pitfalls.

just enjoy it and change oil regular.......CARPE DIEM

 

[Wootty]

If fact I have to disagree with that TBH

Well 'engineered' aftermarket parts (very few of those TBH), and with upgrading certain 'weak' asspects of any engine, you will actually find the life of the engine can be extended well above the OEM expection / design life. Even with a increase in performance.

Mike

I think your not entirely disagreeing with that mike. The point I was trying to make (and which you are hinting at) being - if you just wack in some cams and valve springs at churn out 230 whp then you should expect to run the same risks as slapping on a JRSC.

To be truly upgraded and safe (as one can be) then a holistic approach needs to be taken - which I'm sure your doing with you new tuner.

 

[MJ Type-R]

I can understand your frustration 'Dan the Man', however I'm tied into a none disclosure agreement, I may even have said too much already.....

Wootty, thanks for that clarification.

Mike

 

[Mersey_typeR]

other than mike were all less informed it seems :roll:

leaves it open so much as to whats good and whats cack its well hard trying to guess the pitfalls.

just enjoy it and change oil regular.......CARPE DIEM

Have a look on K20.org. Many people on there use K20's as race engines compared to only a select few in the UK. The americans are way ahead in finding out what breaks first on these engines. The crank bearings and valves are weak points on the K20A for example.

There was also a really interesting post about someone testing a K20A and K20A2 to destruction. The K20A2 as found in the CTR lasted about 4 hrs between 8300>8800rpm before going bang. The K20A in comparison was fine, so they upped it towards about 9k for a few hours at which point it too broke. That was done by a bloke who puts them in Elises in the UK, but you get the idea.

If Mike is better informed than K20.org I'd be very surprised, as I say the US are ahead in finding the limitations of the K20. Thats not a dig at Mike, it's just I can't forsee anyone compiling more knowledge than K20.org on their own.

 

[MJ Type-R]

If Mike is better informed than K20.org I'd be very surprised, as I say the US are ahead in finding the limitations of the K20. Thats not a dig at Mike, it's just I can't forsee anyone compiling more knowledge than K20.org on their own.

Lets just say, your post is only a tip of the iceburg :!:

K20.org wont know it all, never will I, certaim info is kept very very secrete....

Mike

 

[Type-R 69]

I can understand your frustration 'Dan the Man', however I'm tied into a none disclosure agreement, I may even have said too much already.....

Wootty, thanks for that clarification.

Mike

just make sure who ever doing the work mike on your car don't go bust :!: then you screwed

 

[MJ Type-R]

I can understand your frustration 'Dan the Man', however I'm tied into a none disclosure agreement, I may even have said too much already.....

Wootty, thanks for that clarification.

Mike

just make sure who ever doing the work mike on your car don't go bust :!: then you screwed

Hummmm, it wont happen this time, it's a hobby to the chap atm....

Let's just say his been approached by so many people i.e. Race Teams of various motorsports, his now having to turn poeple down.....

So pritty confident this time :!:

Mike

 

[mikegsi]

if i was you mike id stay competely standard, so when you come to croft in september i can whop your ass all over! :wink:

 

[dan the man]

I can understand your frustration 'Dan the Man', however I'm tied into a none disclosure agreement, I may even have said too much already.....

Wootty, thanks for that clarification.

Mike

its ok, its actually quite good. keeps me interested, everyone loves mystery and trying to find the truth. just what gets me is sworn to secrecy on how an engine is going to fail?!??!? i mean not exactly the secret to kintetic energy is it :| :| :|