KPRO ADVICE

[Armenomania]

Hey guys!
Probably will get a Kpro soon.the car has toda header,aem CAI and BC spec III exhaust. Last time i had my Toda installed, when the mechanic drove it, he said that the car is running rich now, so i will need a kpro. If i get it now, there will be no money left for the mapping. Could you give me an advice of which map to choose to correct the A/F ratio for a short period until I would get some cash to map it?
Thanks
Armen

 

[rodney]

Either your tuners a clam or you have the wrong end of the stick. The DC5 is rich from the factory,adding a race header etc etc will further lean the car,so you are running if anything lean,not rich.

If he said your running rich,find yourself a new tuner.

 

[Armenomania]

Either your tuners a clam or you have the wrong end of the stick. The DC5 is rich from the factory,adding a race header etc etc will further lean the car,so you are running if anything lean,not rich.

If he said your running rich,find yourself a new tuner.

LoL .... Man is it possible to understand from driving the car if its running lean or. . . . ?

 

[rodney]

Not conclusivley,no.

You want to be able to read an accurate AFR reading,I'm no expert but the chances of you running rich throuhout the rev range with your mods is slim IMO. I'm a little rich at absolute peak revs but a map would sort that out.

Hang on mate if I were you,buy a RBC & KPRO,fit them then map it.

 

[Armenomania]

Not conclusivley,no.

You want to be able to read an accurate AFR reading,I'm no expert but the chances of you running rich throuhout the rev range with your mods is slim IMO. I'm a little rich at absolute peak revs but a map would sort that out.

Hang on mate if I were you,buy a RBC & KPRO,fit them then map it.

Bro, what you are saying is that if I map the mods i have without RBC and then install rbc, I will have to remap it again? :shock:

 

[rodney]

Definately!

The RBC can give up to 10 bhp when mapped so will make a huge difference to the mapping. There's no point in mapping without a 'better' inlet manifold IMO.

 

[Armenomania]

Definately!

The RBC can give up to 10 bhp when mapped so will make a huge difference to the mapping. There's no point in mapping without a 'better' inlet manifold IMO.

Thanks for the advice, mate
I will get the Kpro, then the RBC. and after when I will get some cash will go to map it. But the second part of my question still has no answer... how can I choose the correct map to correct the A/F ratio for the period until I remap it?

 

[raz786]

There are some basic maps available for the KPRO from hondata, but these aren't going to be 100% suitable for your car. Who are you buying the KPRO from? Perhaps if they are a tuner they could put a basic map avaialble from hondata on the KPRO before sending it out to you. this would be fairly safe as long as you don't constantly rev the nuts off your car

 

[dave c]

Just to save you a bucket of cash, You don't NEED a kpro, the ecu's on these cars are way advanced from most other manufactures. The ecu has a onboard wide band sensor to deal with your emission and fuel/air mix so I wouldn't be at all worried by what your mechanic says. Sounds to me like he is trying to earn a quick buck on a kpro and some mapping. Who is the garage?

It's true that your a/f will be optimised once you eventually kpro and map the car, you will get more power, more torque and better fuel economy...BUT you do not NEED to get a kpro i think its unfair that your mechanic has tried to get you to buy one using a scare tactic, either that or he is also ill informed.

If I were you I would get the rbc and any other bolt on's first then kpro and map, either that or kpro now and use the base maps provided don't bother with mapping until you are happy you have all the bolt on's you want.

My 2p

 

[dave c]

how can I choose the correct map to correct the A/F ratio for the period until I remap it?

They are listed within the kmanager software as basic breathin mods etc, basically you look down the list to find one that has similar mods, for example

basic breathing mods
exhaust
cams

Then select it and upload it. 10seconds and its loaded


HTH

 

[Armenomania]

Just to save you a bucket of cash, You don't NEED a kpro, the ecu's on these cars are way advanced from most other manufactures. The ecu has a onboard wide band sensor to deal with your emission and fuel/air mix so I wouldn't be at all worried by what your mechanic says. Sounds to me like he is trying to earn a quick buck on a kpro and some mapping. Who is the garage?

It's true that your a/f will be optimised once you eventually kpro and map the car, you will get more power, more torque and better fuel economy...BUT you do not NEED to get a kpro i think its unfair that your mechanic has tried to get you to buy one using a scare tactic, either that or he is also ill informed.

If I were you I would get the rbc and any other bolt on's first then kpro and map, either that or kpro now and use the base maps provided don't bother with mapping until you are happy you have all the bolt on's you want.

My 2p

Dave, the mechanic didnt try to scare me at all. when I came the next day i had installed the toda mani, there was a small chat about mods..as the car had all the breathing mods that are required and as my aim is not to make a Track car with 300+ Horses, he told me that I wont need anything else.... but when he drove the car after he installed the TODA mani he said "you will need a Kpro now to get the car working correctly and as u already mentioned for a better power output and fuel economy"

As I previously said, I have the following mods:
AEM CAI,TODA Headers, Buddy Club Spec III PRO exhaust ( Im thinking to change it to TODA, cuz for the DC5 theres no better mani and exhaust than TODA), Buddy Club racing Spec Condenser...From the "breathing" mods only the RBC is missing.

 

[Armenomania]

There are some basic maps available for the KPRO from hondata, but these aren't going to be 100% suitable for your car. Who are you buying the KPRO from? Perhaps if they are a tuner they could put a basic map avaialble from hondata on the KPRO before sending it out to you. this would be fairly safe as long as you don't constantly rev the nuts off your car

A guy from here has replied to my post in wanted section and said that he bought it along with a RBC to install on his car, but now he is selling the car and wont need them anymore.
On Saturday and Sunday I Push on the throttle a lot all starts morning time when I go to work on the highway

 

[raz786]

I don't think you'd be in danger if you delay the map, as Dave C said it's quite safe. I had an exhaust manifold for a while before i bought my RBC. Mapped it after that and never had any problems. I'm sure you'll be fine, enjoy the noise!

 

[Blairh22]

Pardon my ingorance here but why don't people map the dc5 themselves if they have a kpro and kmanager? Surely there are guides on how to use kmanager and how to optimise for your mods?

Please correct me if I'm wrong as it may be far more complicated than that but i would have thought it would save cash from someone else tuning it on a dyno? Can't you data log when driving?

 

[dave c]

Pardon my ingorance here but why don't people map the dc5 themselves if they have a kpro and kmanager? Surely there are guides on how to use kmanager and how to optimise for your mods?

Please correct me if I'm wrong as it may be far more complicated than that but i would have thought it would save cash from someone else tuning it on a dyno? Can't you data log when driving?

I'd say generally people cba with mapping, Its a ball ache and to do it properly it takes a lot of work and knowledge. As the k20 lump is worth about £4K people are generally more happy to let a professional deal with the mapping side of things.

Having said all that, it should be easy enough to learn, same as everything, it just takes practice.

 

[tricker_luke]

Don't you need it on the rollers, or can a quick blast in 4th gear usually give the necessary results needed for self mapping?

 

[Armenomania]

I have seen somewhere that VT-DOO was offering someone to help with a basic map until the guy would get the car mapped. If he could help with this issue with a n advice...

 

[VT-Doo]

:lol: I can help but I'm with Dave on this one.

You only have an exhaust and induction kit.
Get the car on the rollers and find out the power and inparticular the Air/Fuel Ratio throughout the revs.

Do this straight after you get the RBC fitted too. You never know, everything might be safe enough to run without the aid of K-Pro.

I have read on here that the RBC inlet manifold accompanied with an exhaust and CAI will cause the engine to run lean...but I have never seen the proof to this.

Put it this way, when I first installed my K-Pro I had to remove about 20% of fuel.

 

[C&S Evo7]

self mapping is really for the experienced, there is alot than can be gained or lost by not getting it correct, the fueling side of things its fairly simple and the k20 being non turbo you could go quite mad with a really bad map and still have a car that drives ok. the cam angles and vtec change over is a little more involved, like the others i can send you a map but the ones already included in k manager will also allow your car to run ok.

but from my experience with the k20 and f20 the ecu from honda cannot cope with the extra requirements once it can breath properly, my dc5 was very lean (15.7:1) with std breathing mods and no rbc and my wifes s2000 was dangerously lean (16.5:1) with the j's intake and exhaust the dyno guy didnt want to rev it as he was concerned,

 

[Mark_teg]

how can I choose the correct map to correct the A/F ratio for the period until I remap it?

They are listed within the kmanager software as basic breathin mods etc, basically you look down the list to find one that has similar mods, for example

basic breathing mods
exhaust
cams

Then select it and upload it. 10seconds and its loaded
HTH

I currently have a Kpro'd ECU but am running the standard ECU in the car at the moment. My reason for this is the options for generic maps for the Teg are limited, IIRC there are 2 which would suit (think there's more but they're for cams, SC, etc). The rest of the maps are for the k20a2 (ep3).
I experimented with one of the Teg maps but though it sounded quicker (Gruppe M sucked more) it was actually slower. You could also feel Vtec was not in the optimum place and that was enough for me to be worried. Im not sure of the AFR. If anybody has a map they consider would be safe then feel free to point it out on Kmanager or post it here. At the moment I'll be leaving it to the standard ECU, its been fine with a header for a year or so.
HTH
Mine's being mapped next month btw :twisted: