Loose front end?

[Ryanj1993]

Hi all,

Went out for a spirited drive over the weekend and noticed the front end felt a bit loose in comparison to the rear.

The car is set up on Bilstein B14, it has a half cage, progress rarb, skunk2 LCA and also has a full polybush set.

Can anyone recommend a way to make the front feel a bit stiffer, seems to roll a bit more than the back. I did also notice my alignment is quite off, could be this be a causing factor?

On a side note, the car is a fast road/track car, will the B14 suffice for this or should i look at a more adjustable set up?

 

[ollieh17]

What tyres on it?

 

[Ryanj1993]

AD08R

 

[Reggie91]

By loose do you mean understeering?

Potentially more camber? or wider front wheels/tyres to help the turn in and grip?

 

[Ryanj1993]

No not understeering at all, just doesn't feel as stiff or planted, feels a bit wobbly.

 

[spooke]

Get a SHG Steering Slider, it improves steering feel and got rid of a lot of the wobbly feeling in the steering wheel. Another thing you can try is increasing front camber for more turn in, castor too but that isn't possible on B14's.

If you want it more track orientated upgrade to a better budget coilover, MeisterR, BC, Yellow Speed etc. as they will give you way more adjustability than the B14's.

 

[ollieh17]

AD08R

87 or 91w?

 

[Ryanj1993]

Yeah i'm going to be selling the B14 for some MeisterR. May have to invest in a SHG rack slider too.

 

[mike.williams]

Yeah i'm going to be selling the B14 for some MeisterR. May have to invest in a SHG rack slider too

its probably the soft spring rate and lack of dampening adjustment, ad08r can get sticky when up to temperature but also they can take a little while to warm up, cold ad08r for my staggered setup have always over steered when cold

im in the process of fitting some meister clubrace to mine.

spring rates are are little high for a classic terribly surfaced B road, but will be fantastic on track. ive had a few setups over the years and recently sold my set of nitrons as i was going to sell the car.

these are the only coilovers i wanted that i felt will give the best performance, would have liked to stretched to GT1's but i dont have the budget since having kids

let me know if you want a slider, i have recently received a load from Evan at SHG. As luke mentioned it will also help

 

[Liam]

A stiffer front ARB may help if you wanted to stick with the Bilsteins? I've got the B16s and even on their stiffest setting you can see front does pitch and roll more than it would with cheaper coilovers with a higher front spring rate. Feels spot on from the drivers seat though and is infinitely nicer on the road than my last set of taiwan coilovers.

 

[Ryanj1993]

its probably the soft spring rate and lack of dampening adjustment, ad08r can get sticky when up to temperature but also they can take a little while to warm up, cold ad08r for my staggered setup have always over steered when cold

im in the process of fitting some meister clubrace to mine.

spring rates are are little high for a classic terribly surfaced B road, but will be fantastic on track. ive had a few setups over the years and recently sold my set of nitrons as i was going to sell the car.

these are the only coilovers i wanted that i felt will give the best performance, would have liked to stretched to GT1's but i dont have the budget since having kids

let me know if you want a slider, i have recently received a load from Evan at SHG. As luke mentioned it will also help

Cheers mate, let me know how you get on with the CRD they're top of my list. will message you about a slider dude.

 

[mike.williams]

I will do.

The clubrace are pretty much CRD but with higher spring rates 9kg/16kg and valved to suit instead of 8kg/12kg of the normal CRD+.

Normal CRD+ with a bigger rear arb will be a very good fast road and trackday setup.

I just chose the clubrace as i know what i wanted from the car and these spring rates will help achieve it.

 

[Mattz]

I'd suggest getting the geometry checked first before making any other changes.

My front toe was pretty far out and the car handled like crap before I had the geo done properly. It feels a little loose at the back now so I might need a stiffer rARB but overall it handles really well.

 

[Area Motorsport]

It feels loose because they‘re a coilovers targeted for road use and that alone really and not really targeted towards performance but more allowing lowering adjustment whilst maintaining comfort.

You‘ve probably seen many people mention our YellowSpeed Track Version in various other posts we‘ve been doing for four years now, which many customers have had great success with in terms of being compliant on the road but fantastic on the track. Including a customer lapping the ring in 8:01 with only 230 HP on our Track Spec Version.

Good to see Meister have released coilovers with identical spring rates, slotted lower hub holes, and the same target market after categorically saying on many posts throughout the past few years that the spring rates on our coilovers were to stiff. Perhaps they‘ve finally delved into the vehicles motion ratio / wheel rate and realised that 8/16 provides a perfect balance.

 

[Ryanj1993]

It feels loose because they‘re a coilovers targeted for road use and that alone really and not really targeted towards performance but more allowing lowering adjustment whilst maintaining comfort.

You‘ve probably seen many people mention our YellowSpeed Track Version in various other posts we‘ve been doing for four years now, which many customers have had great success with in terms of being compliant on the road but fantastic on the track. Including a customer lapping the ring in 8:01 with only 230 HP on our Track Spec Version.

Good to see Meister have released coilovers with identical spring rates, slotted lower hub holes, and the same target market after categorically saying on many posts throughout the past few years that the spring rates on our coilovers were to stiff. Perhaps they‘ve finally delved into the vehicles motion ratio / wheel rate and realised that 8/16 provides a perfect balance.

That'll be why i ordered the Yellowspeed coilovers and BC RCA from you on Friday then

 

[mike.williams]

It feels loose because they‘re a coilovers targeted for road use and that alone really and not really targeted towards performance but more allowing lowering adjustment whilst maintaining comfort.

You‘ve probably seen many people mention our YellowSpeed Track Version in various other posts we‘ve been doing for four years now, which many customers have had great success with in terms of being compliant on the road but fantastic on the track. Including a customer lapping the ring in 8:01 with only 230 HP on our Track Spec Version.

Good to see Meister have released coilovers with identical spring rates, slotted lower hub holes, and the same target market after categorically saying on many posts throughout the past few years that the spring rates on our coilovers were to stiff. Perhaps they‘ve finally delved into the vehicles motion ratio / wheel rate and realised that 8/16 provides a perfect balance.

Nobody knows this chassis better than Rob!

 

[Crazylegs]

Hi guys,

I've had a fair amount of work done on the front chassis of late.

Have had some OEM track rods and Ball joints fitted along with some Hardrace LCA bushes. I'm also now on second hand Mugen Showa dampers and Spoon springs with an SHG rack slider, not running any front camber bolts as I've been told it's not needed as I don't track the car often enough, however the rear is on Hardrace adjustable arms.

It's fully polybushed throughout with Super Pro Castor bushes and is on AD08R all round.

The front feels much like the OP has described in this thread, loose. Is there anything I can do to improve this so it feels tighter and sharper on the road? The rear feels great, just the front that's off.

Would shorter steering arms help as I believe they aid turn in?

What about a thicker fron ARB?

 

[Mebz]

What are your front geo settings?

 

[Crazylegs]

No idea mate, was done via the string and weight method. I could check with VTEC Direct but I imagine as it doesn't have bolts they wouldn't have been able to do much if any adjustment on the front.

 

[Mebz]

No idea mate, was done via the string and weight method. I could check with VTEC Direct but I imagine as it doesn't have bolts they wouldn't have been able to do much if any adjustment on the front.

Maybe worth a check, they may have got the camber just from the strut hence why you don't need the bolts.

I wouldn't go for shortened steering arms. My understanding is that you only need them when you are running aggressive camber (3deg +). When you are running aggressive camber, you can't get the toe settings you need with standard arms hence why people change them. My understanding was that they just had more thread for adjustment on them rather than actually being shorter... could be wrong though.

Don't know what to suggest really other than geo. More castor maybe, more castor makes the steering heavier.