MOT: CO2 @ 6.152(max. 0.300)...yikes!!!

[Newty]

Oh my 'gulp'.... :shock:

Took the lady in for an MOT today and it didn't just fail its CO2...it got slaughtered!!!

First Fast Idle...
Max Limit CO % Vol=0.300, mine was 6.152!
Max HC ppm Vol=200, mine was 413!
Lambda alloed range 0.970-1.030, mine was 0.834!

And it got worse on the second test!

Natural Idle Test...
CO % Vol=0.500, mine was 1.968

I got the car in October from a bloke in Aberdeen, who had the following fitted:
GruppeM Filter,
Toda Manifold,
Spoon Throttle Body,
Powerflow CAT (!!!) back exhaust,
Hondata K-Pro

I knew it seemed to be running a bit 'rich'(!), as I wasn't getting a very good MPG. I had spoken to TDI North about going down in the summer to get it all checked over...but this MOT result has blown me away, will need to get in touch with them ASAP!

Obviously, it hasn't got a CAT on it...I thought it did have. But having searched posts, I take it the CAT is in the 2-1 part of the manifold? And that the Toda replaced the whole lot?! I aint got any other! MOT tester said putting just the CAT on will only make a small difference, and will still fail.

So, I know there are people on here with very wise minds on these cars...fire away my fellow owners (but no bashing, I bought on instinct!!!)

 

[Tiger_kpt]

Hi mate,

Unlucky about the MOT.

If your car does have the TODA exhaust manifold fitted then it definitely will not have a CAT fitted. The TODA is a single piece 4-branch manifold that replaces two OEM parts... the OEM 4-2 section and the OEM 2-1 CAT section.

Who has mapped the K-Pro? Is it still using a default base map? Or has it been rolling road mapped by a tuner? Doesn't sound as though it is mapped well to your current modifications. If it has been professionally mapped... have any of the performance parts been added, deleted or replaced since the map? It is running very very rich.

 

[Tiger_kpt]

Also... I am not sure how right I am by saying this for the DC5 and K20A engine... but with my past experience on other tuned cars/engines... if the map on the K-Pro was done very well and very finely tuned... it is still possible to be able to pass the emissions part of an MOT test without physically having a CAT - providing that the tester doesn't notice that there isn't actually a CAT on the vehicle (as you are "meant" to physically have one on the vehicle).

Failing that you would need to find both the OEM 4-2 section and the OEM 2-1 section. I have a spare OEM 4-2 section I can sell if that helps.

 

[Newty]

Hi Tiger....thanks for the input.

Everything was on the car when I bought it. I had wanted one of these cars for ages, and me being me I bought one as soon as I seen one I took to, which is this one. I asked no questions about the mods, only queried the usual. I 'assumed' it would all be done proper. Now, being a manager, I like to say 'never make assumptions'...doh!
I haven't added anyhting to it since I got it.

I had a sneaky feeling that it was running poor, as my MPG seemed well out, somthing like 23.

I dont think it has been done properly TBH...hence I contact with TDi...which I will now organise ASAP!

 

[WestYorkshireman]

I thought it looked a little smokey and a fair bit of soot around the pipe and bumper when we were in the Isle of Man, hope you get it sorted ok

 

[Tiger_kpt]

Hi mate. No problem. Happy to help.

In terms of your car... it has had some money spent on it... the K-Pro units (proven) are the best - costing circa £800 and the Gruppe M (I think and slightly proven) are the best - costing circa £450.
The Toda manifold is one of the best for gains in terms of manifolds. I cannot comment on the Powerflow exhaust... but assume that this is OK.

The larger throttle bodies such as Spoon, J's Racing, etc... are debatable in terms of their use and advantages compared to disadvantages.

Did you get any OEM parts with the car such as OEM throttle body, exhaust manifold, intake, etc? Or were these not provided?
The previous owner may very well have these lying around his garage and forgot to hand them over to you, so may be worthwhile calling him... could save you alot of money, time and hassle.

You could always load a more suitable base map onto your K-Pro unit. I am sure that there is a base map that caters for ITR with Gruppe M, Toda and CAT-back.
Do you have the K-Pro software and a laptop?

Failing that, TDi North are definitely the guys to see... where I had my K-Pro mapped.

 

[markie]

DID YOU BUY THIS CAR FOM A GUY UP IN PETERHEAD IF SO I KNOW THE PLACE WHERE IT GOT MAPPED.THEY DONT GET A VERY GOOD NAME FOR THEMSELVES.

 

[Newty]

I thought it looked a little smokey and a fair bit of soot around the pipe and bumper when we were in the lakes, hope you get it sorted ok

How are ya? Yeah, i have noticed the extra smoke and the not-so magic black powder was causing a bit of curiosity. Why didn't you say? It's your fault now.... :lol:

DID YOU BUY THIS CAR FOM A GUY UP IN PETERHEAD IF SO I KNOW THE PLACE WHERE IT GOT MAPPED.THEY DONT GET A VERY GOOD NAME FOR THEMSELVES.

99.9% sure it was Peterhead. Don't rub in too much salt...please!!!

Tiger...Got nothing OEM with the car. I will try and contact the bloke, although if he is like me, he would have sold everything on! I have the programme on my laptop, but I dont want to play with it. I will book in with TDi and take my laptop along...we will get something sorted!!! I'll see what they say, may need to invest in some OEM parts...how boring would that be! :lol:

 

[Tiger_kpt]

Yeah, your best bet is TDi North for a full map for the health of your car.

You may be able to "borrow" an OEM 4-2 and 2-1 just for the MOT test, not sure if TDi North do MOT tests... sure they would have the OEM parts available.

I would do the following in this order: -

Run the MOT with the base K-Pro map and borrowed OEM 4-2 and 2-1.
Then have your performance parts re-installed after the MOT.
Then have the K-Pro professionally mapped to suit your mods.

May be a quick fix until you can find the OEM parts that you need at a reasonable price.

As mentioned I have an OEM 4-2 section I can sell.

I would also recommend changing the Spoon TB to the OE one... the enlarged TB's have little or no gains when used with the OEM DC5 inlet manifold - sometimes you actually lose power/torque slightly. They also have a tendency for making the engine idle rough.

I would buy an OE one and sell the Spoon one - and have money left over.

Only real gains show with them when used with an RBC inlet manifold.

 

[MilanoChris]

It will pass with a CAT. Mine had similar results when I tried with the Toda fitted. Had to put the OEM parts back on to get it to pass.

I gues you could ask nicely, maybe someone has one you can borrow. Then you'd have to change the mani yourself or pay someone to do it, get it tested then get the Toda back on.

If you're worried about the way the car is running then get it mapped ASAP to be on the safe side. Then you'd still have this issue every year till you get hold of a OEM mani. They aren't cheap from Honda. Vulture moment here but if you want to go back to stock I'll do an exchange deal with you, I'll give you my OEM mani and ECU + cash your way. Got the money waiting

 

[Tiger_kpt]

Vulture moment here but if you want to go back to stock I'll do an exchange deal with you, I'll give you my OEM mani and ECU + cash your way. Got the money waiting

Not a bad offer. OEM ECU and manifold/CAT are quite hard to come by. I have dealt with Chris before and he is very good to deal with. Start the bidding. :lol:

 

[jonster]

A base map that is approximate to your setup is a good idea to switch to right now. Hard to believe that a tuner can leave your car in such a rich running state and still be in business. Even a part tune should sort out your A/F ratio. If you are going for a full tune you would be mad not to fit an RBC inlet manifold while you're at it. Great mod.

 

[Tiger_kpt]

A base map that is approximate to your setup is a good idea to switch to right now. Hard to believe that a tuner can leave your car in such a rich running state and still be in business. Even a part tune should sort out your A/F ratio. If you are going for a full tune you would be mad not to fit an RBC inlet manifold while you're at it. Great mod.

Completely agree... upload a more appropriate base map.

And keep the Spoon TB... get an RBC fitted! Great gains.

 

[MilanoChris]

Vulture moment here but if you want to go back to stock I'll do an exchange deal with you, I'll give you my OEM mani and ECU + cash your way. Got the money waiting

Not a bad offer. OEM ECU and manifold/CAT are quite hard to come by. I have dealt with Chris before and he is very good to deal with. Start the bidding. :lol:

Thanks 8)

For the OP - if you don't want to to this then fire me an email - milanochris@hotmail.co.uk

I've got a map that will work 100x better with those mods, your car should run fine with it and only need a base adjustment.

 

[jonster]

I would offer my map also but I don't really want to do the tuners out of any business (not that my map is that similar to the one I had dyno tuned anymore).

If I was to do my mods all over again I would probably settle for the Mugen header with race cat (or equivalent) to save the header swap every MOT time.

 

[Newty]

Well, been i touch with TDi North...they have said they have had cars pass MOT's with KPro but no CAT...how likely it is, I dont know.

Anyway, taking on board what people have said, I have asked for the next available date to get my car in for a good old rogering, and have asked about having a RBC mani fitted.

Cheers for the p/t offer Chris, but I would like to keep everything and will do all I can to keep it as it is, but healthier! If this changes, I'll give you a yell :wink: You vulture.

I don't think I would take anyone elses map, as I am sad and believe every car has it's own personality...mine, at the moment, is one of them fat birds out of Viz.

Thanks to all again...I'll keep you posted on the outcomes...and hopefully have some charts to show off.

 

[LeeH]

Yes, cars CAN pass with no CAT. Not often but it has happened.

Mine is due next month so that will be interesting :lol:

 

[MilanoChris]

The map I was going to send you is mapped by myself and not a tuners map. The mods on my car at the time were Gruppe M, KPRo, Toda mani and a 63mm exhaust. Would be fine with your and with a bit of tweaking once you learn how to use the KPro it'd be perfect.

 

[Newty]

Nice one Chris...thanks again...I am taking her to TDi North, it will be good to watch it all get set up etc. And hopefully they won't mind me asking a few questions!!!

Due to go on the 25th...going to be dodgy on the MOT front that one!

 

[Tiger_kpt]

Hi mate. Just a quick heads up... but came across this for you on eBay. I can recommend the seller also.

This is pretty cheap for a full 4-2, 2-1 CAT and all heat-shields for the DC5. I'd get bidding. Will make your life a lot easier for future MOT's and maybe this one!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Integra-Type-R-DC ... dZViewItem

Hope that helps.