Oil starvation issue

[User]

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11841

Interesting reading. Appears that "possibly" Honda fixed an oil pump design issue in 2003 cars onwards.

Mine's an 04 8)

 

[Evs]

Great link, thanks for posting that up 8)

I should spend more time reading that forum, some really interesting stuff on there.

 

[User]

Great link, thanks for posting that up 8)

I should spend more time reading that forum, some really interesting stuff on there.

Keep an eye on it, certainly looks like 03 onwards owners = smug mofo's.

I've registered there so I can use the new posts function, well handy for making sure nothing passes you by.

 

[andyd]

interesting reading. :shock:

Andy

 

[andyd]

i wounder if thats linked to the VTC soleniod problems :?: :idea:

Andy

 

[User]

i wounder if thats linked to the VTC soleniod problems :?: :idea:

Andy

I dont think the cars have a VTEC solenoid problem, it's just the ECU giving very generic broad brush codes covering certain possibilities leading you to parts of the engine that are not responsible for misbehaving.

I'd say most if not all reports of a CEL are oil pressure related.

That said, I've had one where I accidentally stepped on the accelerator pedal before starting the car. When I then started it up - I got a CEL, most likely from unburnt fuel wizzing past the O2 sensor(s).

Never had one since & obviously the car is decatted.

So, do we collectively know of any 2003 onwards ITR's that have blown up or suffered serious damage due to oil starvation.........?

 

[Evs]

So, do we collectively know of any 2003 onwards ITR's that have blown up or suffered serious damage due to oil starvation.........?

I don't, but then there seem to be relatively few 03+ cars around compared to earlier ones tbh.

The few that have blown up seem to have been due to oil pickup problems, ie low oil or due to g-force on track.

The problem this pump mod fixes would not be obvious - it's cavitation/pressure loss at very high revs. There doesn't seem to be much detail available on this, or evidence of damage thus caused. I also get the impression that it's not just the pump, but the whole oil distribution system that's limited.

The mod won't help if the oil pickup is sucking air because there's not enough oil in the sump or the oil has migrated away from the pickup due to cornering force. Sorry if that's stating the bleeding obvious

Mine's an 04 but I'll still be investing in a baffled sump and sticking to the OEM rev limit I think :|

 

[kingston]

i thought out of the 3 cars(that i know of), two have gone bang due to down shifting instead of up shifting in gear....

 

[User]

Sorry if that's stating the bleeding obvious

Well yeah actually - clear differences between high rpm & the oil system limitations & high g's with oil sloshed up the wrong side of the oil pan.

I'll be going for the sump too, but funnily enough I'm not actually in a rush (although I should be really) I'm just carefull to avoid high g bends and high rpm all at the same time.

 

[Mersey_typeR]

I read this a couple of days back. I was gonna post it up here for you guys, but was first trying to find out which pumps were used where.

The more I read about the K20's oil problems the more it bothers me. The Pace dry sumps are looking more and more tempting at £780ish. Anyone fancy a Spoon baffled sump :lol:

Ideally it would be nice if someone developed an uprated oil pump. Labour wise fitment doesn't appear that tough, perhaps 4 hours or so to get the subframe dropped, oil pan off, swap the oil pump and re-assemble.

 

[User]

Retro fitting an S2000 oil system I spose could be an option.

Back to the other side of the story - Baffled sumps, half the issue with the baffled sump for me at least is the cost. The Mugen one is £200 in the US. Yet over here we're looking at mega money for the Spoon one. Rip off, plain and simple.

Does anyone do baffles we can have welded into the OE pan's?

 

[Evs]

I thought the Spoon one was about £200 in the UK?

Tom at TGM will do you a weld-in baffle job on the OEM sump... :idea:

 

[User]

I thought the Spoon one was about £200 in the UK?

£373 + VAT according to System-R's website...

:?

Hmm, wonder if Tom would just sell me a weld in plate, I could get any ole monkey to do the weld locally.

 

[Evs]

Maybe that price includes fitting and an oil change then? Here's a chunk of an e-mail I got from them:

All prices include VAT
Spoon baffled oil sump, £209.86
Oil, £30.55
Honda Oil filter, £8.88
Hamp oil filter, £12
Trust/Greddy Sandwich plate, £49
Honda Gasket sealant, £26.79
Labour, £123.38

Was looking at the sandwich plate for gauges etc btw.

 

[User]

Maybe that price includes fitting and an oil change then?

More likely their website it out of date. :roll:

That's much better, if it's only £200 ish plus labour I'll get mine done next time I'm up there.

8)

 

[andyd]

What about the Toda sump?

ahhh my old car spun the bearings due to oil problems and it nearly split the block in half

ill post the pictures if i can find them. :shock: :shock:


Andy

 

[Evs]

What about the Toda sump?

I asked System-R about that back in December and they said it wasn't available yet. Haven't heard anything more about it since.

 

[andyd]

What about the Toda sump?

I asked System-R about that back in December and they said it wasn't available yet. Haven't heard anything more about it since.

Here we go.

http://www.toda-racing.jp/new/0603anti_g_oilpan-e.pdf

I am sure Iceblend could get you one.

There approx £250 in Japan.

Andy

 

[Wootty]

Before I bought Livvy's spoon sump i was asking Tom about them and he offered to take mine, remove it and weld in the baffel plate and refit - but did not get a definate price - ranged between £200 and £300. I would suggest contacting him for a firm price.

 

[Mersey_typeR]

I thought the Spoon one was about £200 in the UK?

£373 + VAT according to System-R's website...

:?

Hmm, wonder if Tom would just sell me a weld in plate, I could get any ole monkey to do the weld locally.

Ignore that mate, the price just hasn't being updated. With System-R you pay what they pay, and they order direct from Spoon. I think the price dropped massively when Rampage took over as Spoon Europe after Sumo Power lost the license/decided not to carry on with it.

The Spoon Sports Baffled Sump is £240 delivered. I ordered one in Decemeber. EDIT: Just remembered that was with magnetic drain plugs too... it's actually cheaper than that even! See here:
http://www.spoonsportseurope.net/Produc ... p?SubID=58

It's by far the best deal of the baffled sumps. The Mugen looks like it won't do much, J's Racing is £400 +Vat +they want your sump, TGM's wanted a sump exchange, Hytec's has seen a few engine failures, Clockwork motion's requires the sump removing and the kit welding & bolting in, and the one used on the atom was silly money IIRC.

Naturally after speaking to every man and his dog about the whole sump thing I went with a Spoon one. Fitted at System-R.

As Andyd says the Toda sump is IRO £250 in Japan, but once Toda items hit the shores of the UK the price flies up, so expect a tag of ~£400 for it.

There is of course the Pace Dry Sump too...but it's expensive, you need the kit, an oil tank and I pressume the connecting lines too. £1000 could easily go walkies to get all the gear, let alone fitting costs.
http://paceproducts.co.uk/php/products_ ... 0&parent=3