Possible oil starvation?

[tricker_luke]

Last night I was driving along a particular motorway while at high revs for a short duration of time (about 5 minutes), then it starts to go uphill, not too steep though.
Anyway, as it started going up hill, the car felt like it started to lose power when it shouldn't have so I dropped it down a gear and it started to pull again. I got to the top of the hill and it has developed a clicking/tapping sound that gets louder the faster it revs. I also get the occasional stall since the revs tend to drop a bit too low.

I checked the oil this morning and it was on the minimum line, although before I left for my journey it was at mid point so I did not worry about the level. I've topped it up but the tapping is still there.

Is that the sign of oil starvation? The oil light never came on at any point though. There is also a bit of oil around one of the exhaust manifold welds so I think that may have come apart slightly aswell, since I had noticed exhaust fumes in the bay over the last couple of weeks.

I've been advised to do a cylinder compression test, check the spark plugs and ignition leads etc initially.

 

[sinbad]

sounds like good advice to me, honda's only really show the oil light when its too late. The one thing an engine doesnt like and thats no oil.

Tapping could be your bottom end or something like yout valve clearances or even your injectors. If you havnt done the clearances then its worth having them done as part of routine maintenance if nothing else but to check its not them.

 

[tricker_luke]

The tapping only started happening after the power loss, and I had to drive it home for the last 30 miles but kept below 60.

I can't find our compression tester, but I've had the spark plugs out. The plugs in cylinder 2-4 look to be ok, slightly brown carbon deposit, but the plug in cylinder 1 has completely burnt out. There is only a small part of the bar coming down, and nothing going across. It looks like it has all melted and is really rough.

 

[VT-Doo]

Do you have K-Pro? Post a picture up of your spark plugs.

Is the noise constant? Does it get louder as the revs rise?
OR,
Does the noise only really happen when you let off the accelerator?

A video of the engine making the noise can make things easier too.



What I really don't understand with a lot of people on this forum is their lack of mechanical sympathy! If you're worried about your car or it behaves out of character don't continue to drive it (where avoidable) and certainly don't proceed to drop a gear!

 

[tricker_luke]

I have Kpro yes. The plugs are back in the engine at the moment so can't take a picture just yet.

It's a constant noise that gets louder as the revs increase.

I managed to find the compression tester, there is nothing in cylinder 1 but the other 3 had about 200-210psi and maintained that.

I'm gonna have the head off at the weekend to see what's wrong, but apparently you can rig an air hose to the plug socket and compress it, and listen to where the leak is to find out which valve is faulty.

 

[VT-Doo]

Does it sound a bit like a Subaru Impreza?

Sounds to me your engine has suffered detonation. If so, the edges of your piston will have deteriorated.

 

[sinbad]

Does it sound a bit like a Subaru Impreza?

Sounds to me your engine has suffered detonation. If so, the edges of your piston will have deteriorated.

+1
damaged spark plug doesnt sound good in conjunction with the other stuff. the cylinder has obviously got too hot.

what mods do you have and who mapped it?

 

[VT-Doo]

who mapped it?

IMHO this is the most important question as IIRC it wasn't too long ago.

Out of curiosity what fuel was in the car when mapped and what fuel was in the car when the fault occurred?

 

[jay82]

I checked the oil this morning and it was on the minimum line, although before I left for my journey it was at mid point so I did not worry about the level.

should the oil not be close to the max mark before vtec will engage

 

[Stoo]

I checked the oil this morning and it was on the minimum line, although before I left for my journey it was at mid point so I did not worry about the level.

should the oil not be close to the max mark before vtec will engage

No, if there is enough oil to create enough oil pressure then Vtec will engage

 

[VT-Doo]

I checked the oil this morning and it was on the minimum line, although before I left for my journey it was at mid point so I did not worry about the level.

should the oil not be close to the max mark before vtec will engage

No, if there is enough oil to create enough oil pressure then Vtec will engage

The thing that everybody forgets is the K20a does not have a VTEC oil pressure switch therefore even if you're low on oil VTEC can still engage (if the other parameters are met).
Just because there is enough oil to operate VTEC does not mean there is enough to run the engine safely.

 

[C&S Evo7]

Oh dear that's not good at all, if you have no compression at all in one cylinder you definitely have a serious mechanical problem.

There are many things that could have happened, but it certainly sounds like it has gone very lean on 1. And some damage has resulted normally ringland damage , broken rings or holed pistons are the kind of things I would expect to see.

What is the spec of the car?
Ecu?
Exhaust?
Etc

 

[EK9turbo]

who mapped it?

IMHO this is the most important question as IIRC it wasn't too long ago.

Out of curiosity what fuel was in the car when mapped and what fuel was in the car when the fault occurred?

I mapped Lukes car, It was mapped on V-power as that is the fuel he normally runs on. It was running on tesco 99 during the time of failure!

I'd advised Luke to check several key things (coil packs incase failed, spark plus inspection and compression test) as per above and advised that the next step is to have the fuel injectors flow-tested.

Lets establish some facts. Anybody can make assumtions but its much wiser to assess whats happened and check things systematically first.

1. During a high speed run holding the engine at full throttle in 6th acheiving around 8000rpm continually for aprox 5 minutes the car lost some power. and wouldnt maintain the speed he was travelling at any longer whilst motoring up a slight incline.

2. Upon inspection, the tip of the spark plug earth strap is missing/broken off.
Possible causes:
*Lean heat from either a faulty injector, or bad tuning (although with tuning the other three cylinders would have suffered some form of lean heat damage!) ....and subsequent pre-ignition or detonation.
*Fake spark plugs! - this is an issue in the aftermarket e.g. a fake NGK that has failed!...

(Source = NGK website)
*Ground strap failure through vibration fatigue
*Impact failure - where an object has entered the engine or parted the engine and impacted the plug electrode earth strap

3. engine compression tested and barely any compresion in the cylinder at fault. - the electrode earth strap will have certainaly caused some damage in the engine, that damage wont be known until the head is removed or he gains access to fibrescope/borescope or sorts.

 

[tricker_luke]

Haven't had chance to reply to this yesterday.

It kind of sounds like a tractor while driving with the tapping sound.

It was mapped on Vpower fuel, and had Vpower and some tesco 99 in it at the time.

Spec - Kpro, RBC, Hondata gasket, Spoon 4-2, bpipe, N1 backbox, Apexi cone filter.

 

[C&S Evo7]

1. During a high speed run holding the engine at full throttle in 6th acheiving around 8000rpm continually for aprox 5 minutes the car lost some power. and wouldnt maintain the speed he was travelling at any longer whilst motoring up a slight incline.

i cant see any dc5 doing 8000 rpm in 6th up hill at all let alone for 5 minutes, if it did i'm not surprised there has been a faliure
, at the limiter dc5 theoretical top speed is somewhere around 180mph,

it sounds and looks typical of what happens when an injector fails or you get a lean condition during that type of excersize. it will be interesting to see what has gone and more importantly why.

we have had a few coil packs go bad but never an injector.

 

[donkeykong]

Luke Luke, damn i'm sorry to hear this...u really having bad luck man with the car.
Hope u can sort it out all man and enjoy ur car!

 

[ian.herm01]

1. During a high speed run holding the engine at full throttle in 6th acheiving around 8000rpm continually for aprox 5 minutes the car lost some power. and wouldnt maintain the speed he was travelling at any longer whilst motoring up a slight incline.

Well sorry to hear the car is dead, if this is ture or somewhat close to the truth what were you thinking, doing that sort of speed on a UK road ](*,) Its just crazy and stupid, you would be in prison. You need to think about your actions.