Possible seized engine... options??

[Type K]

Hi

Sorry but this actually isnt about an integra or even a honda but iv got some productive advice from this forum before so turning to you guys again.

I have bought an audi r8 that has been involved in an accident, the car looks like its rolled and has suffered roof damage. Upon purchasing i never thought to think the engine could be seized (starvation of oil when upside down) from the roll but it seems that way now as it wont turn over. when trying to crank the car it just dies and having inspected the cyclinders two of them had oil and possibly water in them, the remaining 6 are clean. I was advised to take the spark plugs out and turn the engine and it did turn but oil came spluttering out and then on the second attempt wouldnt turn over as before.

My question now first is there any hope for this or is the engine finished?
if the engine is seized beyond repair can any parts be salvaged from it?
is it more feasible to recon or replace

engine are in access of £5000 excluding labour and i havnt found any info of anyone who can recon yet.I have been looking into the rs4 engine as the blocks are the same with a few additional feature such as dry sump on the r8 but again im not sure if using one of these could work.

Any advice would be very much appreciated

 

[coyote_dc5]

First of all, interesting purchase you've done there Have you got any pics?

Personally though I don't think it'll be seized more likely when it was upside down oil went passed the piston ring seals as they are not designed to stop oil passing a) when engine is off and b) if oil is sat on top of them for long periods of time while it was upside down. I'd imagine all 8 cylinder chambers are just full of oil so quite the opposite to seized!

The only real way of cleaning this motor up is stripping it down id imagine or some how turning engine upside down and letting oil drain out of cylinders. Even then, once turned over and combusting if you get this far its going to be burning oil and smoking for some time before it settles down.

 

[Rom]

Firstly. Stop trying to start it!

If you've turned it over.... It's not seized!
I know nothing specific about them.
But a dry sump system uses an external pump, and the oil isn't stored in the sump as such. It has an external reservoir.
That said, the scavenge / pick up would still be at the bottom.
But if the cars rolled, I'd have thought the engine would cut out before it starved of oil.
Most modern stuff is designed in such a way, the car knows it's rolled / crashed, and will cut the engine.
Again, I don't know about R8s specifically, but most stuff has gyros etc to monitor speed, direction, rotation etc etc.

If the bores have oil / coolant in, there is a very real danger of hydrolocking the engine. By trying to compress the liquid, which simply won't compress enough, and the engine will lock.
Get all plugs out, they are now junk. Turn it over by hand, slowly, you need a light, and look down each bore as the piston raises. Ideally a scope (little camera in flexi pole) would help. But turn it over until you know what's in them all. If liquid, you need to get out what you can.
A transfer pump / syphon will draw the majority of fluid out.
Then turn it over with all plugs out. It should spit out what's left mostly. You could do this to start, but could be very messy!

You can then either put new plugs in and try it. Or run a compression test for piece of mind.

It will still run with a bit of oil / coolant in the bores. But it will smoke, and run rough. You need to get out as much as you can. And obviously change the oil.

Unless it's run dry, over heated etc. The engine should be fine. Turning over is a good sign.

Does it turn over by hand smoothly? Ot is it locking up?
If it's locking, it's probably already hydrolocked and bent a rod. Or there is still too much fluid in the bores and it's locking as it can't compress anymore.

 

[Type K]

thanks guys seems there might be some light at the end of the tunnel. Im hoping it wasnt ran dry after the accident as there was a impact record on the ecu so maybe it was cut off but im not sure. Havnt attempted to turn it over by hand as it got dark last night but we tried rocking it in gear and it wouldn't move.
Like i said only two cyclinders had oil in them and i attempted to start it twice and both time loads of oil came out. initally it wouldnt turn at all but then when the spark plugs were out it did crank but then went back to normal and locked up again.

il get it stripped and the fluids drained and go from there

 

[Rom]

When you say loads of oil came out when you tried to start it twice.... Where from? As I'm assuming your tried to start it with plugs in.

I've not known a car to hydrolock off the starter. Only when running. But that doesn't mean it can't.

Also, you don't know what's happened after the crash. Who's tried to start it etc before you bought it.

But definitely, for now, only turn over by hand. If it won't do a full rotation with the plugs out, something is bent most likely.

 

[C&S Evo7]

like Rom says the starter wont normally have the grunt to bend a rod, as its not turning very quickly theres not really any momentum and the starter just runs out of steam, with no plugs it should turn fairly easily if it doesnt, its not looking good .

its a little odd why there was/ is only oil in two of the bores, but without seeing exactly what happened during the accident/recovery and since then its pure speculation.

 

[Type K]

When you say loads of oil came out when you tried to start it twice.... Where from? As I'm assuming your tried to start it with plugs in.

I've not known a car to hydrolock off the starter. Only when running. But that doesn't mean it can't.

Also, you don't know what's happened after the crash. Who's tried to start it etc before you bought it.

But definitely, for now, only turn over by hand. If it won't do a full rotation with the plugs out, something is bent most likely.

I took two plugs out and that's when the oil came out and removed another four and tried again and more oil came out but I didn't remove the remaining two as it got dark and I gave up for the day.

Yeh issue is don't know what attempts have been made after but it had a record of impact on it and with any luck it will have cut off fuel lines so engine will have stopped.

I'm going to do a strip down on the weekend and try giving it a turn manually

 

[RunsWithScissors]

Dont empty it of oil. No need. Just take out the plugs and turn by hand. If you can get a full cycle out of the crank pulley (or ideally a few) you are ok and everything "should" be in tact.

Then (still with plugs out) use the starter to empty what's in the cylinders by cranking the key a few times.

Mate sucked a load of water from a ford into his DC2 and we cleaned out the cylinders this way with great success.

No damage can be caused as no compression will be generated, plus the oil i mentioned to leave in will obviously do its job of lubricating the engine components.

Batt will quickly go flat though, so preferably have it on charge.

Good luck.


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[Type K]

Dont empty it of oil. No need. Just take out the plugs and turn by hand. If you can get a full cycle out of the crank pulley (or ideally a few) you are ok and everything "should" be in tact.

Then (still with plugs out) use the starter to empty what's in the cylinders by cranking the key a few times.

Mate sucked a load of water from a ford into his DC2 and we cleaned out the cylinders this way with great success.

No damage can be caused as no compression will be generated, plus the oil i mentioned to leave in will obviously do its job of lubricating the engine components.

Batt will quickly go flat though, so preferably have it on charge.

Good luck.


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thanks for the input, only issue is there is no nut on the crank pulley and very little room to work with so still struggling to find a way to manually crank

 

[RunsWithScissors]

Just whip the plugs out and crank it then? Any nasty noises and immediately stop.

If any damage is caused, its already happened anyway.

At least you remove spark and compression this way. Plus if any fluids in there it will rid them.



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[Type K]

Just whip the plugs out and crank it then? Any nasty noises and immediately stop.

If any damage is caused, its already happened anyway.

At least you remove spark and compression this way. Plus if any fluids in there it will rid them.



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fair point,il take the remaining plugs out but if it turns and locks up like it has previously has this will obviously mean the engine's toasted right?

 

[RunsWithScissors]

Pretty much mate yeah. If you can't crank it, it's fubarred really.


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[RunsWithScissors]

Let us know how you got on..?


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[Type K]

Let us know how you got on..?


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its good and bad news tbh, took some going but got it fired thankfully however it wont go into gear when running. have been advised this could be a clutch/pressure plate so will cost a couple of grand to get sorted but its better than replacing an engine.

thanks for all your help and advise guys

 

[coyote_dc5]

Could there just be water now in the hydraulics some how?

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[RunsWithScissors]

Unsure how an R8 clutch it fitted so can't be 100% but thinking how it's mounted and access leads me to think it's prob an engine out job anyway to sort a clutch?

Check the linkage first, I mean the guy who crashed it was obviously driving it at the time to roll it (unless he is fully green and about 50 stone with a really ripped shirt) so it's unlikely a crash has ruined a clutch. It's highly protected in there so I'd expire all avenues before you diagnose the clutch as being the problem. Linkage could have easily become bent in the accident. Or the clutch hydraulic system, enabling you to engage/disengage clutch? Being on its roof could have enabled air to enter the clutch hydraulic system.


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[civicjordan281]

At my work (audi main dealer) we replaced a v8 engine on a r8 as the owner had decided to go from like 4th to 1st at high revs and the engine munched itself leaving s big piston sized hole in the block, The bill was a tad over 20k

 

[Type K]

Unsure how an R8 clutch it fitted so can't be 100% but thinking how it's mounted and access leads me to think it's prob an engine out job anyway to sort a clutch?

Check the linkage first, I mean the guy who crashed it was obviously driving it at the time to roll it (unless he is fully green and about 50 stone with a really ripped shirt) so it's unlikely a crash has ruined a clutch. It's highly protected in there so I'd expire all avenues before you diagnose the clutch as being the problem. Linkage could have easily become bent in the accident. Or the clutch hydraulic system, enabling you to engage/disengage clutch? Being on its roof could have enabled air to enter the clutch hydraulic system.


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it seems it was on the track when it got wrecked, first clue being half a field being inside it and second being the last location on satnav was knockhill. it goes into gear when the engine is off and will move if you put it in gear first and then start it but moves even with the clutch pressed down and then stalls as soon as brake is pressed.

 

[Type K]

At my work (audi main dealer) we replaced a v8 engine on a r8 as the owner had decided to go from like 4th to 1st at high revs and the engine munched itself leaving s big piston sized hole in the block, The bill was a tad over 20k

yeh expecting big bills with it, can you get me discount on parts lol

 

[RunsWithScissors]

At my work (audi main dealer) we replaced a v8 engine on a r8 as the owner had decided to go from like 4th to 1st at high revs and the engine munched itself leaving s big piston sized hole in the block, The bill was a tad over 20k

Useful.


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