rack raiser (with meister r crd)

[JDM-DC5]

Im sure this has been covered and ive read some topics on it but with no final answer if its cured the problem. Recently fitted coilovers and got alignment done. Drives perfectly straight. But the torque or bump steer is something I don't want to have to get used to. I've read somewhere the design meister used eliminated the need for a rack riser. Wondering If anyone using same coilovers and have one installed too? The first few gears it just wants to go left and right. Thanks.

 

[tristanpalmer]

Could be due to a number of things...

How much front toe out are you running?
(It should say on your print out with the geo settings on).

Front tyres?
Mine came with Eagle F1s when I first got the car, which had very soft sidewalls on, which dramatically increased the feeling of bump steer and wandering.

If it's bump steer and needs a rack raiser you should be able to tell by looking at the angle of the steering arms in the engine bay.
There's various arguments for/against running a rack raiser I believe.

From what I've read/seen, the best set-up for feel, and avoiding bump steer is to run the rack raiser upside down, so it lowers the arms, then run inverted track rod ends...
Not sure how accurate that is, or suitable for road use though.

 

[spooke]

I think you were mistaken in regards to design of them - there as a thread about coilovers where Jerrick showed their old coilover design where the mounting point was straight (lower) rather than how the stock strut is.

I too have MeisterR CRD coilovers and am lowered around -30mm, I've read that the Tegiwa Rack Raiser is designed for lower than -35mm. My tie rods are at quite an angle and I think if I were to fit a rack raiser it would start angling in the opposite direction - I think the way that Tristan explains of running it upside down and inverted arms could be a possibility in resolving it but again it may end up the same.

Currently as Tristan also mentions my tyres are some Yokohama ECO ES31 which are very soft - I expect with a tyre that has a stiff sidewall the feeling would be vastly improved. Also I can recommend a SHG Slider or equivalent, that definitely made my steering feel firmer and seems to wander less.

Also how low is your car?

 

[Tuneboy]

Im also running a MeisterR CRD+ Setup w/o the riser.
Got massive Torque-Steer so i fitted Energy Suspension Enginemounts but they didnt improve the torque-steer.

Im getting Federal 595RSR Semi-slicks this week, hopeful this will reduce the torque-steer.

 

[JDM-DC5]

Thanks for replies..

Here's a side on photo to get an idea of how low it is


My toe is set to 0 front and rear. And I have Yokohama AD08R tyres all round.. I saw a group buy for the slider. The car drives fine when up to speed but when accelerating in first few gears it wants to wander around.

 

[spooke]

That's definitely lower than mine, looks around -40/50mm at the front, you should look at slight toe in at the front and rear to help stability, as under acceleration I believe the front toes out.

Might be worth getting a rack raiser, slider and some RCA's, should be fine for your ride height.

 

[JDM-DC5]

That's definitely lower than mine, looks around -40/50mm at the front, you should look at slight toe in at the front and rear to help stability, as under acceleration I believe the front toes out.

Might be worth getting a rack raiser, slider and some RCA's, should be fine for your ride height.

How much toe in? -0.10? More? It's all money but I'll have to look into getting the above so I can enjoy it more.

 

[spooke]

How much toe in? -0.10? More? It's all money but I'll have to look into getting the above so I can enjoy it more.

Looking at my current geometry I'm only running 0º01' on each wheel, 0º05' on the rear, I'd recommend a bit more than that. Do you have rear camber arms? Without I had about -2º20' of camber on each wheel, that's one thing you can do before the rest - that made a huge difference for me as it stopped the rear end feeling unstable as it had twice the camber of the front.

It may be worth emailing Jerrick for some advice on this, I may do myself..

 

[mike.williams]

Bumpsteer is determined by roll centre and rod angle to give toe in under compression.

Its the relationship between the rod end following the roll centre lca

An aggressive rod angle does not necessarily mean you will have bumpsteer.

The only way to determine if a rack riser is needed is to measure bump steer everything is also dependant on the coilover steering arm design. Every arm is different and will give different a curve/ toe characteristics

Also anything more than -1.5 degree front camber on this chassis will create the pulling left to right due to the rubbish design of the steering rack

 

[JDM-DC5]

I've close to -1 degree camber on the front and -1 at the rear.. guess it will just be trial and error and hopefully not throw money in the bin with things I don't need to replace or fit. The joys.

 

[spooke]

I've close to -1 degree camber on the front and -1 at the rear.. guess it will just be trial and error and hopefully not throw money in the bin with things I don't need to replace or fit. The joys.

To be honest I felt the same once I first fitted them, I think it would have been the same with any coilover though, it's well known that the steering feel is 'worse' when lowered.

 

[Liam]

This doesn't sound bump steer related in my eyes. Mine will wander around in first and second unless the road surface is smooth - always just assumed this was normal when asking a FWD car to handle a modest amount of power and steering? The diff will play a part also.

If it's excessive though you may want to check track rod ends and control arm bushes, but I'd expect a noticeable amount of play in them before it starts badly wandering.

To be honest I felt the same once I first fitted them, I think it would have been the same with any coilover though, it's well known that the steering feel is 'worse' when lowered.

Depends what you're using the car for; but yes, I guess you can't really go attacking those uneven b roads like you used to with coilovers that are probably sprung for the tarmac of smooth streets/ the track.

 

[JDM-DC5]

The track rod ends were replaced to the ep3 ones as meister recommend with them. I've just replaced front and rear drop links and arb bushes so next to check will be the control arm bushes. I guess when they're replaced it'll be piece of mind anyway. It's a great driving car having a 'daily drive'. And it's not bad enough to throw me into a hedge. But I just felt it shouldn't wander like it does. It's like I'd have to grip the wheel as such and hold it straight. Thanks for all the replies and ideas. I appreciate it. Hope to get to the bottom of it soon

 

[spooke]

The track rod ends were replaced to the ep3 ones as meister recommend with them. I've just replaced front and rear drop links and arb bushes so next to check will be the control arm bushes. I guess when they're replaced it'll be piece of mind anyway. It's a great driving car having a 'daily drive'. And it's not bad enough to throw me into a hedge. But I just felt it shouldn't wander like it does. It's like I'd have to grip the wheel as such and hold it straight. Thanks for all the replies and ideas. I appreciate it. Hope to get to the bottom of it soon

To clarify, is it physically pulling the steering side to side, or does it feel 'wobbly' up front?

 

[JDM-DC5]

To clarify, is it physically pulling the steering side to side, or does it feel 'wobbly' up front?

I would say wobbly. I'm not fighting with steering wheel if that makes sense

 

[spooke]

I would say wobbly. I'm not fighting with steering wheel if that makes sense

Mine is like this, after the SHG Slider was fitted it felt much better - firmer feel, less wobble. Although it still feels a bit wobbly I was going to put that down to my tyres being jelly - but you're on AD08R's? Hmm...

 

[2ndy]

Mine bump steers over are crappy roads, lowered with rack raiser. I've now fitted shortened steering arms and buddyclub roll centre adjusters (big ball joints) going to get it aligned and hope that solves it as other than raising it up I can't think of anything else

 

[spooke]

Have a read of this - download the PDF and read, mainly figure 8 onwards, based on the RSX but I don't think the 10mm front track difference would change much?

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=717355

 

[JDM-DC5]

Mine bump steers over are crappy roads, lowered with rack raiser. I've now fitted shortened steering arms and buddyclub roll centre adjusters (big ball joints) going to get it aligned and hope that solves it as other than raising it up I can't think of anything else

Who's doing you're alignment Andy? I'd recommend Ivan Kerrs in Carrick for it. Precise with everything. Everywhere I took my last one it drove awful! Look forward to you getting it aligned to see how it goes then!

I'll give it a read Spooke. Thanks.

 

[2ndy]

Streetracer in bangor is doing it for me, alignment and corner weight. Hes had dc5s himself and knows what the car will be used for so hopefully all will go well!