Running without front arb

[Kevin85]

Anyone experimented with removing their front arb?

My spring rates are F:450 R:560lb/in, are they stiff enough to even consider running without a front arb?

 

[Samy888]

Just wondering why you would want to run your car with no arb?

 

[Kevin85]

Clearance issues. I'm in the process of fitting a btcc manifold, and it's still coming down from 4-2 at that point.

The next time I'm at a circuit, I'll be removing it and testing the feel, but it doesn't hurt to gather relevant info before then.

If it's shite and doesn't work, I'll have to have an arb made, or find a 'universal' type that doesn't have the hump over the exhaust tunnel.

 

[spooke]

Of course it's going to handle worse, I think you should modify that manifold to fit - if possible, or get one that doesn't require any changes to the anti roll bar.

From what I've read too it is a MOT failure.

 

[Area Motorsport]

We've tried it a number of times all be it on the Civics. General consensus is that it gives a vague feeling that isn't great but outright grip is slightly better especially in the wet.

In all honesty it's very easy to try, just undo a drop link one side and cable tie it up, I think you'll find with those Spring rates you'll see a lot of roll however.

 

[ep3itrdc5]

am i missing the point here...

isnt it easier just to buy a manifold that fits?

no wonder the manifold was cheap, it doesn't fit a normal dc5, i guess you are doing it just for pub bragging rights, as the gains from a btcc manifold without the neil brown engine will barely be noticeable im sure...

 

[Fez]

What ARB did the btcc cars run? Or did they not run one?

 

[Kevin85]

Of course it's going to handle worse, I think you should modify that manifold to fit - if possible, or get one that doesn't require any changes to the anti roll bar.

From what I've read too it is a MOT failure.

A modified anti roll bar isn't an mot failure, or else everyone running an aftermarket arb would fail. Having one there that isn't functioning is, ie disconnected. I don't think having it completely removed is a fail either.

If I can get this manifold on, I will. It's a great design(btcc NBE), it's very light, has a 3" vband and I bought it very cheap, so if I have to pay 1k to get it fit and running correctly with a custom arb and modified rear mount/tunnel, I'll be in the same financial boat as if I had spent 1k+ on a toda/feel's or whatever else is out there, only this manifold will likely piss on those designs.

It won't perform as well as it can on a standard engine, but it will future proof it for when it's got silly cams and a something sexier on the inlet side. I like to future proof because I'm not on a limitless budget and I do all the work myself.

 

[Kevin85]

am i missing the point here...

isnt it easier just to buy a manifold that fits?

no wonder the manifold was cheap, it doesn't fit a normal dc5, i guess you are doing it just for pub bragging rights, as the gains from a btcc manifold without the neil brown engine will barely be noticeable im sure...

Well, that's what I want to find out. Of course It's a nice thing to say I have an NBE manifold yes, but willy waving isn't going to make me any quicker, which is what I actually care about.

 

[Area Motorsport]

Kevin we've modified roll bars in the past, you could just use and modify an OEM roll bar and use rose joints/mis alignment spacers for drop links. You could remove the hump and use a hollow sleeve, the wall thickness of the sleeve to use would need to be researched though.

 

[Kevin85]

Kevin we've modified roll bars in the past, you could just use and modify an OEM roll bar and use rose joints/mis alignment spacers for drop links. You could remove the hump and use a hollow sleeve, the wall thickness of the sleeve to use would need to be researched though.

Thanks. I did consider doing something like that, it seems like the simplest solution. I'm at the research stage, unfortunately my engineering knowledge doesn't stretch to calculating torsional rigidity of hollow pipe.

If you don't mind giving me more details on the bar's you've modified, I would really like that.

 

[Kevin85]

I'll be honest, when I considered modifying the oe bar, I put the idea to sleep pretty quickly, as I didn't think welding a peice of tube would hold up to the strains of an arb. Again, I'm not an engineer, so I'm reaching out to those more experience and intelligent than myself.

 

[spooke]

A modified anti roll bar isn't an mot failure, or else everyone running an aftermarket arb would fail. Having one there that isn't functioning is, ie disconnected. I don't think having it completely removed is a fail either.

If I can get this manifold on, I will. It's a great design(btcc NBE), it's very light, has a 3" vband and I bought it very cheap, so if I have to pay 1k to get it fit and running correctly with a custom arb and modified rear mount/tunnel, I'll be in the same financial boat as if I had spent 1k+ on a toda/feel's or whatever else is out there, only this manifold will likely urine on those designs.

It won't perform as well as it can on a standard engine, but it will future proof it for when it's got silly cams and a something sexier on the inlet side. I like to future proof because I'm not on a limitless budget and I do all the work myself.

I did not mean a modified roll bar, but I've read that removing a OE spec roll bar is a MOT failure, even if you remove all traces of it.

Good luck on fitting it either way, I'm sure it will be worth it in the end!

 

[C&S Evo7]

it would be interesting to see if the manifold works , the btcc engines didnt have vtec and had pretty special cam profiles, so worked well at high rpm, it may not work well at all on a stock or even normally tuned engine

 

[Kevin85]

I have to find out. Of course there's a risk it will be a waste of time, at which point I'll throw all the papers and receipts into the air, declare testes on the lot of it and ask solidfab Allan to make me one that does work with my future cam profile.

When I was poorer and playing with primeras, I done a similar thing to the sr20. I cut a tri-y b18 manifold to peices and rewelded it as a 1-4 2-3 config, into a 2.5" pipe. 'they' said it wouldn't fit and just get a 'proper' manifold. It worked like a treat, and made my original manifold (the one that everyone had) look and feel like junk.

Who knows, this might make the toda manifold look like mass produced junk, it certainly does visually.

 

[Phelpo711]

Why on earth does anyone care about an MOT failure when he is fitting a btcc manifold?! Unless they race them with cats now haha. Modified or left standard, the antiroll bar would be the least problamatic find for a tester!!

 

[Kevin85]

I have a btcc cat Whether it works well enough to pass mot emissions is another story.

 

[Jvzr]

I have to find out. Of course there's a risk it will be a waste of time, at which point I'll throw all the papers and receipts into the air, declare testes on the lot of it and ask solidfab Allan to make me one that does work with my future cam profile.
When I was poorer and playing with primeras, I done a similar thing to the sr20. I cut a tri-y b18 manifold to peices and rewelded it as a 1-4 2-3 config, into a 2.5" pipe. 'they' said it wouldn't fit and just get a 'proper' manifold. It worked like a treat, and made my original manifold (the one that everyone had) look and feel like junk.
Who knows, this might make the toda manifold look like mass produced junk, it certainly does visually.

I had a fujitsbo and had a power land on my sr16.
Got a b18 tri y custom built by "dale" in the uk.
Was told i wouldn't make power on a 16ve like the fuji did.
Made 12bhp mid range and 9bhp top end. All trial and error.

Have no input on the anti rollbar but very interested to see how the manifold turns out

 

[miki1212]

Who knows, this might make the toda manifold look like mass produced junk,

so are you going to swap it with a toda and compare the results if and when its fitted?
obviously the manifold will work if you can get it to fit, its just tubes like any other mani, but you wont know if its any better or not unless you do, personally i think it wont make any noticeable difference with a mildly tuned road going engine, money better spent elsewhere imo..

 

[Kevin85]

I had a fujitsbo and had a power land on my sr16.
Got a b18 tri y custom built by "dale" in the uk.
Was told i wouldn't make power on a 16ve like the fuji did.
Made 12bhp mid range and 9bhp top end. All trial and error.

Have no input on the anti rollbar but very interested to see how the manifold turns out

Sweet. They were doing it for a while in the states, but were mostly joining 1-2 3-4, I wanted to try something different. Clearance was an issue but it worked with some thinking and a jig.