Shifting Problem on Track

[hamks18psi]

I have shifting problem/concern after the track day in Abingdon Airfield today.
My car gave me so much fun with Project Mu brake pads, despite the calipers paint get worse because of the dust.

I did change gear oil last week, and found the gear shifting is much better and smooth.

After 4 sessions, the 2nd half of day I started to found some issue (all at high rev) corning.

1. When I shift my 2nd gear to 3rd, it ends up in 5th gear (it happen quite frequently in last 2-3 session.
2. Down shift from 4th to 3rd, cannot get in once, but redo it without problem
3. 2nd gear to 3rd gear, cannot go in well (sometimes grinds), but when I depress the clutch longer and shift slower at high rev, no problem
4. Other gear upshift and downshift re fine.

My friends and I checked the shift selector and did not see any catching to other objects, my car is very stock, except the brake pad, because for track purpose.

I knew my hand shifting speed and my foot speed on clutch is not doing well (in sync) sometimes, so I can practise more and don't shift too fast.
However, the 2nd gear into 5th really drive me nut. Last session really kill the fun.

My 2001 CW has done 28k mileage, I am the first owner in UK, and only done about 1000 miles on it.

I worry so much that whether I have transmission and clutch problem that need costly rebuild/repair.
But my friends told me that my shifter free play is quite a lot, which could cause the issue.

I don't think I can enjoy the shifting in track at high rev, if the problem cannot be identified and resolved. Normal/Daily driving is not an issue but I don't buy this car such communing purpose.

Could anyone who is experienced in track use of this car advise me where I should check or look into?

The Shift Cable Bushing on the shifter cable I did not check before, they are very new without any wear.

 

[Linus27]

I don't have any problems getting in to gear on track but I have certainly noticed the play between gears. The biggest problem I'm finding is I go from 4th to 3rd but end up going in to 5th. I'm also finding I go from 3rd to 4th when trying to go 3rd to second. It's always going down gear that causes a problem sometimes.

I have been told the 4. K-Tuned Billet Shifter Box is a good buy and tightens everything up. It's not cheap at £400 but worth a shot.

 

[hondamad2204]

Could be the selector mechanism bolt thats in with the shifter spring above the gearbox. I believe its 4 bolts that hold it in liittle access hatch looking thing. Got to he worth a shot see if it's working loose.

 

[hamks18psi]

I don't have any problems getting in to gear on track but I have certainly noticed the play between gears. The biggest problem I'm finding is I go from 4th to 3rd but end up going in to 5th. I'm also finding I go from 3rd to 4th when trying to go 3rd to second. It's always going down gear that causes a problem sometimes.

I have been told the 4. K-Tuned Billet Shifter Box is a good buy and tightens everything up. It's not cheap at £400 but worth a shot.

This is what I meant. I have also experienced once of "from 4th to 3rd but end up going in to 5th" .
I am not 100% sure it caused by free play but when I simulate it by moving and observing the stick, I can see that a fractional move can end up into either 3rd or 5th.

Is K-Tuned Billet Shifter Box very good? £400 is a lot, but the shifting issue really kill the fun, suppose our DC5 is way ahead other cars, but end up questioning while slowing down in the track.

 

[hamks18psi]

Could be the selector mechanism bolt thats in with the shifter spring above the gearbox. I believe its 4 bolts that hold it in liittle access hatch looking thing. Got to he worth a shot see if it's working loose.

Do you mind telling me which bolt in below picture?

 

[TonksyDC5]

Is K-Tuned Billet Shifter Box very good? £400 is a lot, but the shifting issue really kill the fun, suppose our DC5 is way ahead other cars, but end up questioning while slowing down in the track.

Not tried it on track, but I recently had the K-Tuned shifter and some M&M Bushes installed. Fantastic upgrade!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[George657]

Sounds to me that you have a shifting issue as well as a synchro issue.

Regardless of if it doesn't go in or not when it grinds it's because the synchro isn't functioning properly.

 

[tricker_luke]

The resistance to go into gear could also be due to needing a rebleed, clutch pedal biting point adjustment or potentially a new clutch.
I used to struggle to get into gear at high revs but adjusted the clutch pedal master cylinder rod, to effectively raise the biting point and fully disengage the clutch.
My issue was that the biting point had gone too low so the pedal fully depressed did not fully disengage the clutch.

 

[MissMyDC2]

I manged to get a clutch for 120 delivered recently. I would start there then work your way up £ wise.

 

[hamks18psi]

The resistance to go into gear could also be due to needing a rebleed, clutch pedal biting point adjustment or potentially a new clutch.
I used to struggle to get into gear at high revs but adjusted the clutch pedal master cylinder rod, to effectively raise the biting point and fully disengage the clutch.
My issue was that the biting point had gone too low so the pedal fully depressed did not fully disengage the clutch.

But the issue is mostly related to 3rd gear, but no other gear.
It could be synchro or somethings else, right?

 

[spooke]

I'd definitely recommend this, it really helped me with 1st to 2nd as it was quite loose before,

http://h-tune.co.uk/k-tuned-shifter-pivot-ball-spring/

To me it sounds like your synchros are bad, you could tell this you can get into the gears at certain RPM levels. 2nd to 5th instead of 3rd is just something you need to get used to, I did this once on track and a few times on road - much better than 5th to 2nd! haha...

 

[MissMyDC2]

I'd definitely recommend this, it really helped me with 1st to 2nd as it was quite loose before,

http://h-tune.co.uk/k-tuned-shifter-pivot-ball-spring/

To me it sounds like your synchros are bad, you could tell this you can get into the gears at certain RPM levels. 2nd to 5th instead of 3rd is just something you need to get used to, I did this once on track and a few times on road - much better than 5th to 2nd! haha...

I fitted one of these. Definitely a noticeable difference. If not a shocking price for a spring and a bit of plastic.

 

[hamks18psi]

I don't have any problems getting in to gear on track but I have certainly noticed the play between gears. The biggest problem I'm finding is I go from 4th to 3rd but end up going in to 5th. I'm also finding I go from 3rd to 4th when trying to go 3rd to second. It's always going down gear that causes a problem sometimes.

I have been told the 4. K-Tuned Billet Shifter Box is a good buy and tightens everything up. It's not cheap at £400 but worth a shot.

Could be the selector mechanism bolt thats in with the shifter spring above the gearbox. I believe its 4 bolts that hold it in liittle access hatch looking thing. Got to he worth a shot see if it's working loose.

Not tried it on track, but I recently had the K-Tuned shifter and some M&M Bushes installed. Fantastic upgrade!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds to me that you have a shifting issue as well as a synchro issue.

Regardless of if it doesn't go in or not when it grinds it's because the synchro isn't functioning properly.

I'd definitely recommend this, it really helped me with 1st to 2nd as it was quite loose before,

http://h-tune.co.uk/k-tuned-shifter-pivot-ball-spring/

To me it sounds like your synchros are bad, you could tell this you can get into the gears at certain RPM levels. 2nd to 5th instead of 3rd is just something you need to get used to, I did this once on track and a few times on road - much better than 5th to 2nd! haha...

I have uploaded the video of the last session that I have struggled very much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQoNgZolSYM

That morning sessions were all fine, but the afternoon started to getting worse, not sure it is about my sore leg or poor shifting.

1:03 (4th to 3rd , cannot go in, need to retry)
1:17 (2nd gear went to 5th)
2:00 (2nd gear went to 5th)
2:40 (1st attempt to 3rd downshift failed)
4:09 (another 2nd gear went to 5th)

Please advise, I can take any criticism.

 

[George657]

The first 15 seconds in, your gear shifter looks really sloppy and off alignment.

I would pull the centre console out and check the shifter mechanism and the cables.

I would also be checking the shifter bushes the gearbox end also.

But it deffinatly doesn't look right.

 

[hamks18psi]

I have taken the console out, and found something that I don't have enough knowledge to judge. but looks like 3rd and 5th are fractional difference in shifting action.
I am surprise how close they are, not sure is it common or just my one?

https://youtu.be/yZOjIZvqq-w

 

[spooke]

I'm pretty sure they're all like that, as I said I've done 2nd to 5th a few times, you'll soon get used to it. What does your clutch pedal feel like, soft and smooth? It might be worth checking the pedal movement to the RSX workshop manual and changing the clutch fluid to see if that helps. I still 100% recommend that K-Tuned Shifter spring and pivot ball, made a huge difference to the sloppyness.

One thing you can try is rev matching your downshifts (there are plenty of guides on YouTube), even if it's just a small blip of the throttle - it may be a temporary fix for you.

 

[p1tse]

Seems right to me

The far right is to engage reverse

But when travelling at speed not sure when maybe 10 mph then the speed sensor will lock out that far right

I'm no techie but if you can freely move in gears when car turned off like above, my hunch would be the gearbox and synchro's, I could be completely wrong

 

[George657]

I disagree.

3rd and 5th are not that close in my car, nor is my gear shifts as sloppy as his.

Potentially the cables have stretched or something maybe, without seeing it in person I can't help. Where are you based?

 

[Tuneboy]

Had two hard miss-shifts, with 6 to 2 instead of 4th. After that i fitted the k tuned spring which helped alot. I also changed my style of gearchange.

If you want to shift to 3rd or 4th, dont grip the knob. Just push it forward, so that it will spring in the "middle" to already be adjusted for 3rd.
Look this video of Ito Daisuke doing it with the DC5R: https://youtu.be/bF4upRjLqig?t=1m42s
This helps me alot and i didnt missshift after learning this techniqe at all

Also: Learn the rev match mate, its hurting my butt seeing your downshifts w/o rev match, i do this and i can tell you, it sounds awesome and is hella fun https://youtu.be/plH6rwb28Jo?t=58s

 

[hamks18psi]

Had two hard miss-shifts, with 6 to 2 instead of 4th. After that i fitted the k tuned spring which helped alot. I also changed my style of gearchange.

If you want to shift to 3rd or 4th, dont grip the knob. Just push it forward, so that it will spring in the "middle" to already be adjusted for 3rd.
Look this video of Ito Daisuke doing it with the DC5R: https://youtu.be/bF4upRjLqig?t=1m42s
This helps me alot and i didnt missshift after learning this techniqe at all

Also: Learn the rev match mate, its hurting my butt seeing your downshifts w/o rev match, i do this and i can tell you, it sounds awesome and is hella fun https://youtu.be/plH6rwb28Jo?t=58s

I agree your strong point about changing the shifting style. Every car is different, so DC5 is new to me, and after the first track day, I have learnt a lot from it (normal driving on road cannot).
I would not grip the knob again, and practice more on palm push instead.

Would research more on K-tune and prepare for the next upgrade soon.

The clutch has low bite point as well I just found, which would either need adjustment or re-bleed, or change the clutch in the end.

I must admit that if I bought this DC5 and drive it on road (not on track), lot of problem would no longer be the problems, because it is difficult to push the limit, while the neighborhood has bad listed "Type R" cars already.