Suspension Geometry?

[Paul Type R]

I've just done a search for the std and fast road geometry set ups and this is what i found....

Std?

Front
Total Toe: +0.0mm +/-1.9mm
Half Toe : +0.0mm, +/-0.9mm
Camber : -.50deg , +/-1deg
caster :+1.17deg, +/- 1.0deg

Rear:
total toe : +1.9mm, -0.9mm,+1.9mm
half toe : +0.9mm, -.5mm, +09mm
camber : -.75deg, -1deg, +.75deg.



Fast Road?

Front:
Total Toe: +0.0mm +/-1.9mm
Half Toe : +0.0mm, +/-0.9mm
Caster : +1.17deg, +/- 1.0deg
Neg camber : 1.-1.5 deg
Track:0.0mm

Rear:
Total toe : +1.9mm, -0.9mm,+1.9mm
Half toe : +0.9mm, -.5mm, +09mm
Neg camber :.75-1 deg
Track: +.9mm per side


I'm wondering if these figures are right, they look rather similar but then i'm no suspension guru. I'd basically like to know what the standard set up is so i can have mine checked as i'm not sure mine is set right. My fronts seem to have a camber set so they wear their tyres on the outside while my rears are set to wear their tyres on the inside, (sorry if this sounds like a 5 year old talking but i can't remember which way is positive and negative camber :lol: ). Is this how DC5's are meant to be or have i got problems?

Here's hoping somone can help me out anyway. Thanks.

 

[logik]

I wouldnt know mate, maybe give TGM a call?

 

[LeeH]

It all depends on what you're plannig to do....

Unit 8 set mine up at 1 deg negative and 1mm toe in all round. It's feels great on the road and I have noticed no adverse tyre wear as of yet.

All in all its a good set up for me.

HTH

 

[hessy1]

does anyone know the setting for 18" wheels with a 40mm drop thanks

 

[Paul Type R]

For now i just want my cars geometry checking to make sure it's set as std.

 

I got mine set at buddyclub UK and it is a lot better.they obviously know a bit more than us about handling.

 

[C&S Evo7]

The above settings are about right, ultimatly toe is what will kill your tyres but can help with turn in.

 

[celox performance]

I got mine set at buddyclub UK and it is a lot better.they obviously know a bit more than us about handling.

Out of interest, what settings did they use?

 

fr, 1.5neg, 2 deg toe.
rr, 1 neg, 1.5 deg toe.

fr, 1mm spring preload, 8 clicks out of bump/rebound.(compression/damping)
rr, -5mm spring preload, 10 clicks out of bump/rebound.(compression/damping)

 

[George K]

Are you sure about the toe settings, they sound very big numbers - I would have expected virtually zero, =/- 20' at the front and 15-30' toe in at the rear.

 

George,
You go with what you know mate, Im probable not qualified to advise you anyway, and I also am not allowed to reveal where i get these pie in the sky figures from.

 

[LeeH]

Are you sure about the toe settings, they sound very big numbers - I would have expected virtually zero, =/- 20' at the front and 15-30' toe in at the rear.

I would have thought you would only want 0 toe if you were doing nothing apart from the 1/4's :?

 

Are you sure about the toe settings, they sound very big numbers - I would have expected virtually zero, =/- 20' at the front and 15-30' toe in at the rear.

I would have thought you would only want 0 toe if you were doing nothing apart from the 1/4's :?

You are right Lee, Zero toe is for Draggers.. in normal situations. But can be used in other track combinations,
For Road use i would say 2 degrees out will feel quicker to turn in, because you have the problem of more neg caster and self steer on a road car.
Regards,
Paul,

 

does anyone know the setting for 18" wheels with a 40mm drop thanks

Dear Hessy, you will have to be a bit conservative on that one due to the 18" wheels,

less agressive settings and more scrub will be needed due to the higher tyre pressures required with a 215.35.18 tyre.
regards,
Paul,

 

[George K]

Sorry to appear to argue, but I have come from a Clio Trophy, which handled superbly, and the settings I quoted were roughly those used on that car.

If I go back to the fast road settings at the beginning of this topic 1.9 mm total toe = just over 15' , i.e 0.25 degrees, hence my query re the 2 degrees figures.

Always willing to learn, hence my query, as it will affect the way I develop the car - for hill climbing in the production class.

Thanks and regards

 

Sorry to appear to argue, but I have come from a Clio Trophy, which handled superbly, and the settings I quoted were roughly those used on that car.

If I go back to the fast road settings at the beginning of this topic 1.9 mm total toe = just over 15' , i.e 0.25 degrees, hence my query re the 2 degrees figures.

Always willing to learn, hence my query, as it will affect the way I develop the car - for hill climbing in the production class.

Thanks and regards

No problem george, you are probably right about the toe on a clio , but then again I have never worked on a clio, they are a lot shorter than a DC5, I do know that much, I also know that when I worked on Mini Suspension design we used 0-1 degree out.because of the tail happy issue of Minis. Then made adjustable tie bars to tip the inclination angle back and make it turn in and load the outer wheel up better.This does of course depend on the track,and the corner styles (especially left to right flicks) etc.
with DC5 we have used settings from 0 to 2deg out depending on the track,and of course how much testing time you have. As you will already know if you dont have enough testing time you resort to safe mode.

 

George,

You are probably 100% correct for a clio, I have never worked on them, but experimentation is the key.
We used lower toe settings on the Minis,but altered the inclination with adjustable tie bars to tip it in,
Short cars are more tail happy you know.

DC5 are longer and can take a bit more scrub, We could use anything between 0 to 2 deg out, depending on the track and how much testing time we have, or if we dont have time we resort to what we know (plan b). but is this original thread for road or race use i wonder??
because getting to Tescos 10th of a second quicker isnt really the point...

You might see some TA cars pick up time throughout the day, and others dont move at all,there is a reason for this :wink:

 

ooops,,,,sorry guys , i thought that forst post had gone into the eather..
as i was logged out as i pressed send.

 

[George K]

Paul - thanks for your feedback and explanations. I am trying to develop a set-up for hill climbing, where we have to run on completely cold tyres. I know from feedback from Gould that the spring settings are very soft, so I am looking for something halfway between road and track. Lots of rear toe is certainly interesting as a way to get some heat into the rear tyres, so could be really helpful

Thanks and regards

 

George,
Its years sinse I did any Sprint and Hillclimb events, but we used to really toe out and caster positive due to the cold tyres situation and also the slow nature of the sport. You are trying to work with a vehicle that needs to change direction very fast, and retain maximum corner speed in the process, that is why you will see low power light cars beeting high power cars up the hill (you know this is true).
if you toe out the rear you will be able to slide the back around the sharp corners instead of understeering into the exit bank (You have seen this one right???).
The most important thing on hill climb is the corner exit speed, this determins the speed that you carry to the next corner, and it is a multiplication factor by how many corners you encounter.

Front wheel drive cars have a disadvantage at hill climb. We have to make the car react like a rear wheel drive...
Experiment on the same hill,and do tests,,change everything twice, and get a good safe (base) setting. then build on it at every venue practise session.
YOU can not do this alone,,,you need men on the ground to help you, but it is very rewarding for you and your helpers when you make an improvement.
Regards Paul,