Taking the plunge...

[DC5RK20A]

I just ordered the Hondata K-Pro and with it, the new IPS K2 cams. What I am hoping for, some help. I don't have any dynos to tune on here, so those of you with K-Pro and similar mods (Toda mani, GruppeM intake and exhaust) would you be willing to send me a tuned base map for me to play with and street tune off of it. Granted I will have the cams going in and maybe your maps may not be of much use, I have already asked stateside to the few people that already have the K2 cams for their maps. With this addition plus the Mugen headgasket, I am hoping to be putting down around 250ps at the wheels. I won't know unfortunately, but similar mods on the K20A2 engine, they were getting 247hp at the wheels. This was using a DC exmani and one of the cold-air intakes. Anyways I am really excited to experience what kind of beast I am going to have soon. I told myself I wouldn't break into the engine until 100,000km, but my engine is completely torn down because of the unfortunate problem from my last gymkana. And the dealer will install at no additional expense since they have to put the engine back together anyways.

Well if you have maps and are willing to share, it would be much appreciated and if I am ever in that neck of the woods, a few rounds on me! It would be the least I could do.

Chris

 

[iDrew]

Great website Chris - particularly like the DC5R exhaust catalogue

Ian

 

[Trung]

I dont think anyone here is using IPS cams yet. I know of an EP3R owner will be testing a set very soon (can't say much ATM) but not sure about the compatability of the map for K20a2 to K20a.
Do a lot of DC5R owners in Japan use Hondata?

 

[DC5RK20A]

I dont think anyone here is using IPS cams yet. I know of an EP3R owner will be testing a set very soon (can't say much ATM) but not sure about the compatability of the map for K20a2 to K20a.
Do a lot of DC5R owners in Japan use Hondata?

I will most likely be the first in Japan with Hondata. The Japanese have no idea of its existence really. It is quite a shame, a whole market that Hondata have yet to break into, this includes back to the programs for the B series.

 

[tailslide]

I won't know unfortunately, but similar mods on the K20A2 engine, they were getting 247hp at the wheels. This was using a DC exmani and one of the cold-air intakes.
Chris

could u point me to the webby with more info on this matter? heard bout the IPS cams too and exploring my options for the next power mod :wink: i've got a k-pro tuned with custom cold air and exhaust but unfortunately, all my data is with my tuner and i dun have a soft copy to share at the moment.

appreciate the info mate.

 

[DC5RK20A]

I won't know unfortunately, but similar mods on the K20A2 engine, they were getting 247hp at the wheels. This was using a DC exmani and one of the cold-air intakes.
Chris

could u point me to the webby with more info on this matter? heard bout the IPS cams too and exploring my options for the next power mod :wink: i've got a k-pro tuned with custom cold air and exhaust but unfortunately, all my data is with my tuner and i dun have a soft copy to share at the moment.

appreciate the info mate.

Go HERE

Ron had disappeared for about a year maybe a touch longer and hired 2 guys that know what they are doing and came up with these cams. The beauty of them, you get to use stock Honda valvetrain and yet they have more lift and duration than almost anything on the market for the K20.

I just got a call from my mechanic friend at Honda and I already have half of what is required-the retainers and half of the outer springs, just need the inner springs and 8 outer springs for the exhaust side.

 

[Paul]

heard that paul@system r is going for ips cams with the 2.2 stroker kit soon

www.system-r.co.uk

:lol:

 

[Trung]

That's 2 EP3 owners then :shock:

 

[tailslide]

Go HERE

Ron had disappeared for about a year maybe a touch longer and hired 2 guys that know what they are doing and came up with these cams. The beauty of them, you get to use stock Honda valvetrain and yet they have more lift and duration than almost anything on the market for the K20.

I just got a call from my mechanic friend at Honda and I already have half of what is required-the retainers and half of the outer springs, just need the inner springs and 8 outer springs for the exhaust side.

thanx for the handy link i suppose the "OEM" valve springs and retainers actually refers to the stock ITR's? dunch u already have them? kinda uncomfortable that the "safe" rpm is only till 8.5k though. maybe i'll wait for the release of their race valve train before diving in myself. holy cow, 170 hps to 247 hps is a BIG jump!

 

[Tomm]

They use the S2000 outer valve springs and "red" inner springs for dual spring setup. IPS also offers an intake "bell" that is extended at the end of the intake. You will have to get a different intake filter but it looks pretty awesome. Those guys at IPS did their homework.w
Tom

 

[DC5RK20A]

thanx for the handy link i suppose the "OEM" valve springs and retainers actually refers to the stock ITR's? dunch u already have them? kinda uncomfortable that the "safe" rpm is only till 8.5k though. maybe i'll wait for the release of their race valve train before diving in myself. holy cow, 170 hps to 247 hps is a BIG jump!

Actually I only had 24 of the 48 pieces needed. My intake was only using single springs, but it was the type that was needed. My exhaust spring was also single spring, but not the right part #. My retainers were the right #. So I needed 16 inner springs and 8 outer springs for the exhaust side.

About only going to 8500rpm, actually that will be plenty because of the great increase in power below the curve. The mid-range is so increased that you will not really need to rev past 8500. The set-up will rev higher to like 9000 but it is not recommended. The stock springs are actually rated until 9100. I have misshifted twice on my stock valvetrain and the first time it reached 10800 and the second time 11307 and I had no damage whatsoever. I was really concerned, but nothing detrimental ever happened to the valvetrain.

Most definitely they (IPS) did their homework on the product. Ron went away for over a year to bring these cams out. He started off by wanting to build up a CO-OP network with different areas covered by different people, but all working together to build up great cars. That never came to be, but he didn't stop and now he has this wonderful product on the market.

 

[jonster]

Hi Chris,

Are you up and running again now then?

I'm pleased you are giving the IPS cams a go. I'm tempted too but am not brave enough at the moment. Most of the UK tuners I've spoken to are doubtful. Since you've not mapped your engine before I guess it will be hard to tell if the IPS cams make all that difference. Just the mapping alone, with your old stock cams, makes a big difference. You really must try and get yours dyno tuned rather than rely on other people's KPro maps. The 'k20a2-rsx-310cc-itrcams-jrhdr-cai.kal' was way out for my car at all stages of mods. If you find a tuner, get them to look at the tuner training notes on the Hondata site. It explains the tuning for different cam angles.

Yours will be a real beast when done.

Cheers,

Jon

 

[DC5RK20A]

Hi Chris,

Are you up and running again now then?

I'm pleased you are giving the IPS cams a go. I'm tempted too but am not brave enough at the moment. Most of the UK tuners I've spoken to are doubtful. Since you've not mapped your engine before I guess it will be hard to tell if the IPS cams make all that difference. Just the mapping alone, with your old stock cams, makes a big difference. You really must try and get yours dyno tuned rather than rely on other people's KPro maps. The 'k20a2-rsx-310cc-itrcams-jrhdr-cai.kal' was way out for my car at all stages of mods. If you find a tuner, get them to look at the tuner training notes on the Hondata site. It explains the tuning for different cam angles.

Yours will be a real beast when done.

Cheers,

Jon

Jon not up yet. Car is still apart, waiting for the cams and Hondata ECU to arrive. Ron of IPS is actually going to upload a map for RH, CAI, exhaust, 550cc injectors. This will be a great starting point, even better than what comes with the Hondata Kmanager. Yes I would love to put it on a dyno, there are only 2 shops that have dynos here on Okinawa that I know of, the one shop HATES Hondas and won't let me use it (can't figure this one out, actually I think Hondas are just to technical for them). The other shop I will look into, if anything to just get some numbers as it is like ¥5000 for like 30 minutes or something like 3 runs. I really believe the car will be making about 250ps at the wheels when all is said and done, maybe a tad more, this will be more than enough for this tiny island running around on the streets and mountain runs.

When it is all put back together and I rebreak the engine in again and start to romp on it, I'll post my feedback, I'm pretty sure it is going to be something like---OH SHIT, THE CAR IS CRAZY :evil: !!!

 

[jonster]

Hi Chris,

You should be able to achieve 250 PS ok. It takes a whole day of dyno'ing to get a decent map since you need to tune for each cam angle (0-50) on the low cam and then do the same for the high cam (VTEC). It's a shame your dyno options are limited. The most of the time is spent getting the air/fuel ratio right. You best bet is to do lots of logging on the road with the KPro and the best map you've been provided and then sitting down and analyse the recording. For each cell you are in during this log, note the A/F ratio recorded and adjust accordingly. It's pretty hard without the linear loading that a dyno provides but it's your best bet. Most of the tuning is with wide open throttle too, which can be hard on the road (because you run out of it or a corner appears). Since you don't always drive WOT, you have to do some fine tuning with part throttle otherwise you get a pretty lumpy cruise. Also record knock and compare if this is occuring with too much ignition advance or a too lean condition.

The Hondata training documents and videos are pretty much all you need. I knew nothing about tuning before my DC5 and the Hondata information was amazingly useful.

Good luck,

Jon

 

[DC5RK20A]

Thanks Jon. The map that Ron is providing already has the cam angles worked into it. Ron said I may have to adjust it very little if anything at all. These maps were actually made by Hondata tuning the K2 cams. I'm sure I will have to play with it, because of the upped compression over the K20A2 with normal K20A, plus I am adding in the Mugen headgasket, another .3-.4 of compression.

I have already watched all those Hondata videos they have from their website, will watch over and over repeatedly and I am considering ordering their DVD as well. Can't hurt. Nobody knows Hondata at all here in Japan, they really don't even know it exists. Quite a shame as it really is one of the best if not best ECU option on the market. The HKS F-CON is a nice addon and can do alot as well, but it is a generic piece.

 

[jonster]

Chris,

You realise the variable cam applies to the intake, hence having a different intake (GruppeM) to the one Ron uses will upset things. Couple that with your Toda (has the best scavenging of all) and noisy / good breathing ca-back, you will more than likely be way out from Ron's map. More compression makes even more difference too, as you realise. I imagine this will need more ignition retard straight away.

Most tuners will be concerned with getting the A/F ratio right. If you can persuade them they need to do for 12 maps (0-50deg x low + high cam), they shouldn't be really that worried. Once you have 12 dyno graphs, you just overlay six of them at a time representing the low or high cam. Note where the most power is made at each cam angle and then set the cam angle accordingly for the given RPM. Try and make the cam angle transitions as smooth as possible between RPM increases/decreases.

I didn't find the DVD gives you any more than the free downloads. Still quite interesting though.

Is it that hard to take your car to the main land to get it done properly?

Cheers,

Jon

 

[DC5RK20A]

Well it would be an additional about ¥50000-60000 ferry ride to and back. Just don't have the money and I just found out today that I may have to pay back like $7000 in over payments I was getting for the last 2 years. COMPLETE SHOCK.

There is somebody using the ITR pistons and a Toda headgasket that is also using the IPS K2s. I think they are also using the Toda exmani. The intake, yes this is a big difference. I know the car will not be properly tuned, but I am hoping I can do some decent hands on street tuning. If I can't, then I'll figure something out concerning dyno time.

Thanks for the heads up on the DVD.

 

[Jor-El]

I thought that with K-pro you had to send your current ecu to hondata. Being in Japan, how are you getting around this? I'm curious, because I'm interested in Kpro, but sending my ecu to Hondata is not a feasible option.

 

[T666YPR]

You can also buy an ecu with the Hondata already fitted,though is more ££

 

[Trung]

It's probably easier and cheaper for you to buy a spare ECU from a breakers yard and send that off to Hondata :idea: