These cars don't like uneven road surfaces!

The Meist_R

Advanced Member
Messages
136
Lost control of the car big style the other day on a roundabout with a adverse camber. The car started going side on to the right, corrected it (or so I thought I had) then all of a sudden the backend just went **** off and spun me 180 round to the left! I've had another scary moment off a roundabout when the lsd decided to pull me a few feet the opposite way! I find the car bags of fun but edgy on uneven surfaces and B roads.

Or maybe it's because the tyres are 4 yrs old, (plenty of tread on them but the compound is a little hard) OR I'm just a sh*te driver!
 

gonzo

Advanced Member
Messages
841
unlucky mate. personally the teg is the most stable car i've driven - handles being chucked round the nurburgring just fine!

might be worth checking tyres though!
 

sherv14

Advanced Member
Messages
101
i almost got caught out for the first time at the weekend. Round a roundabout quite hard, slightly wet. The backend twitched both ways fairly heavily it seemed, I never brake whilst cornering or even let off the gas (or at least try to avoid it), so I was kinda suprised. More so considering that this is a front wheel drive car. I guess the LSD saved me.

But the heart did skip a beat :eek:
 

gonzo

Advanced Member
Messages
841
sherv14 said:
i almost got caught out for the first time at the weekend. Round a roundabout quite hard, slightly wet. The backend twitched both ways fairly heavily it seemed, I never brake whilst cornering or even let off the gas (or at least try to avoid it), so I was kinda suprised. More so considering that this is a front wheel drive car. I guess the LSD saved me.

But the heart did skip a beat :eek:

More than when i took you out in your car and got it stepping out round roundabouts?!! :wink: :lol: :lol:
 

Zero7

Advanced Member
Messages
741
The Meist_R said:
Zero7 said:
Are you on Jap or UK spec rubber?
Still the Jap ones
There's your problem, I had hard 4 year old rubbero n my car when I brought it, I'm not sure if the Jap spec rubber is legal on our roads??

There ride was awfull and handling was a bit 'off', I swapped these out for Goodyear F1's and the difference was amazing.

The rubber on my car had done 6k miles in 4 years, compound was rock solid, it is on Jap Tyres anyway but the fact that they had been on the car for so long compounded (excuse the pun :lol: ) it even more.

Change as quick as you can.
 

CL

Member
Messages
19
Zero7 said:
The Meist_R said:
Zero7 said:
Are you on Jap or UK spec rubber?
Still the Jap ones
There's your problem, I had hard 4 year old rubbero n my car when I brought it, I'm not sure if the Jap spec rubber is legal on our roads??

There ride was awfull and handling was a bit 'off', I swapped these out for Goodyear F1's and the difference was amazing.

The rubber on my car had done 6k miles in 4 years, compound was rock solid, it is on Jap Tyres anyway but the fact that they had been on the car for so long compounded (excuse the pun :lol: ) it even more.

Change as quick as you can.
The problem is really the suspension. Although the tyres will have some affect on the roads it is the stiff double wishbone suspension which is the culprit. Although dw-suspn are designed for track use, both the ITR and CTR were also made for the public roads so it is not quite an "out right" track car.

The main advantage of dw-suspn is it remains flat throughout the its vertical and lateral loading cycles (road undulations and corning forces) this maximises the contact patch on a smooth surface like a track. However on highly undulated roads these are no good at all, this is the reason why dw-suspn is rarely used in rally cars. Is it also the reason why an ITR and CTR will not out corner a car like a mk4 golf gti on a rough road.

A lot of peeps turn to stiffer coil overs in an attempt to get better traction for cornering on rough UK roads. This actually makes it worse. It is an ideal mod for the track but unsuitable for the rough UK roads. I would suggest getting a "fast road" setup with the standard suspension. This generally involves increasing the camber negatively.

HTH
 

AndyBITR

Advanced Member
Messages
258
I thought it was double wishbone at the rear, and MacPherson struts on the front. DC2 was definitely double wishbone all round. :D
I found the DC2 excellent on UK roads, probably better at coping with bumps than my DC5. :!: (DC2 was JDM too, so no soft UK suspension!!)

As far as I know, (and it ain't much) Macpherson strut can allow greater suspension travel. It is also more compact and lightweight as there is no upper arm, and is much easier to replace than DW, ie at a service area in a rally stage!! :wink:
 

mikegsi

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
6,095
you can get a fast road set up anywhere mate, pref somewhere that does laser alignment, you just need the settings and take them in do a search for them mate...

im running goodyears and i wont be buying them again, they're ok, but the bridgestones are a better tyre in my opinion, the goodyears are soft walled and add a slight wallow to the car, the bridgestones arent and dont.

my spare alloys (trackdays) have bridgstones re040's on at the mo, but wil be getting semi slicks on them for tracks
 

CL

Member
Messages
19
Yep, dws rear, macpherson struts front on DC5/EP3. But in answer to "The Meist_R"'s original question, the rear suspension is whats causing the "edgeness" on uneven surfaces. This is not only true for the DC5, it is the same for EP3, S2000 and even an F1 car.

Taking a crude example with 2 extremes to illustrate my point - an F1 car vs a rally car on a rough uneven surfaced corner. The F1 car would bounce and slide as it stuggles to find traction and would not stand a chance against the rally car even if the travel and ride height was increased. However on a smooth tarmac track the rally car's suspensions set up would be inferior to the F1's dws. This is an exaggerated example as there are many other factors to consider.

As said the macpherson struts are compact, lightweight, fewer parts and also cheaper than dws but they are only compact in direction, laterally - freeing space for the engine and steering. They are still susceptible to changes to camber and toe under high cornering forces and "bumps" unfortunately and also induce a higher cog.

It is the rear suspension that is the issue here, as so many people with type-r's have identified. Try cornering a type-r on a sharp bend on an uneven surface, the rear end will skip all over the place. Macpherson struts with its longer travel in the rear will behave more forgivingly as it is able to tolerate the bumps and will tend to give some feedback to the driver when it is about to lose traction under these circumstances.

The DC2 has dws all round which allows it to turn into the corner earlier and sharper, this is one of its main weapons when it was first released. But given a rough road the DC2 will have the same fate. I've no idea whether the DC2 will corner faster than a DC5 on the track though as this depends on a number reasons such as its weight, tyre size, chassis, polar moment of inertia, balance etc.
 

anticlaus105

Advanced Member
Messages
225
Wow. I did the same when I first got mine. My mate was behind me and came round the roundabout to find me facing him.

Never had a problem since. Think it taught me a valuble lesson. Plus I was on Jap tyres at the time which i think didn't help.
 

dan the man

Advanced Member
Messages
3,682
dont forget tho with good tires front end grip is excellent so the back after a sharp turn in is set up to come round.

i think its ace..called fun and cars that behave neutral are boring imo

8)
 
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