Thinking about going SC

[User]

I've been mulling over what to do next for a few months, nosing around club rsx and K20.org etc trying to do some research for myself because people in the know here seem to act like government agent secret squirrels.

Thought about cams but not overly sure about them: -

Driving style will tend towards ragging the nuts out of the engine
Noise at idle
Heavy labour costs
Harsh on the valvetrain
High rpm driving possibly outside of the OE oil system capability

So, seriously thinking about going SC'd, with a low pressure system - 5 psi.

I reckon 5 psi should be ok. There's little point in going over 8250 rpm with the SC from what I've read - which is a good thing. If the SC power delivery is such that you really dont need to go beyond 8250rpm (or even 8500rpm on occasions) that in itself is solving a lot of problems - Problems with wear and problems with oil circulation primarily.

I'm sure 6 psi would be ok on stock internals - but there's always a trade off - that extra boost is going to cost something. 5 psi should, hopefully - give a nice balance between performance and the engine not grenading itself.

The only downside really is that boosted cars create more torque. And it's torque (rather than power) that kills gearboxes, clutches and causes wheelspin. Again, I'm hoping 5 psi is not going to be a threat to the OE clutch, box or create stupid amounts of wheelspin. Although clearly I may have to look into softer compound tyres if 2nd gear blows more smoke than a 16 year old with a poorly wrapped joint.

So, I've got some questions to try make my mind up: -

In the US there's race and street versions of the JRSC. Will the street (5 psi) version fit the DC5?

The JRSC sold by tuners over here - which version is that exactly?

The JRSC seems a lot cheaper in the US - anyone imported one? What's involved?

I have K-Pro - I guess the mapping is pretty straight forward (off an established safe base map) but how many hours dyno is needed?

I have a Toda manifold and HKS Cat Back - will the exhuast gases be able to exit quickly enough?

Reliability - anyone had teething problems with the JRSC? CEL's?

Is it possible a noob could attempt to fit the JRSC? Or is it a pro job only?

Many thanks, sorry for the long post.

 

[matt b]

People in the know here seem to act like government agent secret squirrels.

:lol: have to agree!

Come on boys share the wealth surly thats what this forum is all about :?:

 

[andyd]

People in the know here seem to act like government agent secret squirrels.

:lol: have to agree!

Come on boys share the wealth surly thats what this forum is all about :?:

i am afraid i can't say any thing.......

If i told u i'd have to kill you.

:lol: :lol:

Andy

 

[andyd]

In the US there's race and street versions of the JRSC. Will the street (5 psi) version fit the DC5?

Yes

The JRSC sold by tuners over here - which version is that exactly?

DC5 race and street.

The JRSC seems a lot cheaper in the US - anyone imported one? What's involved?

27.5% Extra costs on top of shipping and the unit value.

I have K-Pro - I guess the mapping is pretty straight forward (off an established safe base map) but how many hours dyno is needed?

Yes u can use a off the shelf map, but dyno tuning is better as every engine is different.

I have a Toda manifold and HKS Cat Back - will the exhuast gases be able to exit quickly enough.

No problems there

Reliability - anyone had teething problems with the JRSC?

No CEL's unless your engine blows up. There are a few problems with them. The main ones being oil temp and the physical accelerated ware on the OEM parts.


Is it possible a noob could attempt to fit the JRSC? Or is it a pro job only?

No you can fit it yourself, there are plenty of good guides around.


Andy

 

[User]

Thanks a lot Andy, that's a big help. 8)

In the US - the street is cheaper than the race, but over here it just seems to be one price. :?

I guess you can't actually use the K-Pro to reduce the boost the SC makes? There's a 2nd hand (but unused and boxed) Race version for sale I could pick up cheap, but I dont want 7 psi - just 5 psi. Could you make the race version produce less boost or is the boost dictated by the pulley sizes?

 

[andyd]

Thanks a lot Andy, that's a big help. 8) - NP Bud 8)

In the US - the street is cheaper than the race, but over here it just seems to be one price. :?

Pass, you would need to speak to some of the UK based tuners.

I guess you can't actually use the K-Pro to reduce the boost the SC makes?

No this is done by the size of the pullys


Could you make the race version produce less boost or is the boost dictated by the pulley sizes? Yes its rised and lowered by pulleys

Andy

 

[Jor-El]

nice job with the explanations there Andy.

 

[Mersey_typeR]

The Us RSX is different as you all know. It runs a K20A2 engine rather than the K20A engine you lot have. So just remember your higher compression ratio.

If you read closely on CRSX you'll see numerous people ditching s/c's after a while and going down the N/A route. Personally I wouldn't supercharge a K20 at all as I think it's truely asking for trouble.

With regards N/A tuning, I haven't seen any stories of people's cars wearing out with Cams. It's widely known that Honda cams aren't that aggressive so gaining an extra 10% with them, be they IPS (which are of the more aggressive vareity) or Toda (which aren't quite as aggressive) the reliability should be fine. The oil system can have pressure troubles at prolonged high RPM (especially in corners as we know), but fitting a baffled sump and running a mugen oil filter help keep the pressure up and maintain good oil pickup.

Numerous people across the world have run Toda/IPS cams in high compression K20's and there are very few reports of things going pop.

Basically those are the reason's I've chosen to get N2 cams fitted in my CTR rather than getting a supercharger. Cost wise it breaks down as:

Cams: Depends on varient
Springs: £305
Chain Tensioner: £110
Labour: £425

Result? Ask Zero7 :lol:

 

[Suped]

Andy should open his own business! :lol:

 

[andyd]

Andy should open his own business! :lol:

Why? :shock: :?

Andy

 

[Suped]

Given alot of helpful advice as I've been reading. Earn yourself a buck or while your at it.

 

[andyd]

Given alot of helpful advice as I've been reading. Earn yourself a buck or while your at it.

na.....


Just stuff i've learn over the years. :lol: :lol:

Plus some of it, i've been there done that and got the t-shirt! :lol:

(mental note, must get that baffeled sump done :shock: )

Andy

 

[User]

Thanks Mersey, good points well made & I'll give it some more thought.

I could do with seeing a RR graph of a car with Toda cams to see at what rpm peak power is made and how much power is available in the mid range.

 

[andyd]

Thanks Mersey, good points well made & I'll give it some more thought.

I could do with seeing a RR graph of a car with Toda cams to see at what rpm peak power is made and how much power is available in the mid range.

Here is a N2 Setup with the following mods

INJEN cold air intake, TODA Exhaust Manifold, and TODA exhaust system.

DYNO RESULTS (power at the wheels)

2002 RSX Type-S Horse Power Torque ft/lbs

Stock 171.2 @7500rpm 131.0 @ 6100rpm

Intake, header, exhaust*, & TODA Engine Kit 231.1 @ 8100rpm 165.1 @ 6100rpm

POWER GAINS AT THE WHEELS 59.9hp 34.0 ft/lbs

extra info.

Our stock RSX Type-S produced 171.2hp to the wheels as measured on a Dynapack dyno. The addition of an Injen Cold Air Intake, TODA exhaust manifold, TODA exhaust system, and the TODA Engine Kit increased power from the stock 171.2hp to 231.1hp. That's a total gain of 59.9hp gain over stock, while maintaining factory smooth derivability. But peak power figures alone don't do justice to the remarkable power and torque gains throughout the entire powerband.

 

[User]

Tip top. 8)

Peak power at 8051rpm :wink:

Love it, now that's workable. Peak power 8k rpm, set limiter to 8650 rpm, should in theory be safe providing dont use full rpm range in long gears.

Hmmm...

 

[Mersey_typeR]

Thanks Mersey, good points well made & I'll give it some more thought.

I could do with seeing a RR graph of a car with Toda cams to see at what rpm peak power is made and how much power is available in the mid range.

I did forget to add though, those s/c K20a2's that have had issues appear to have being running high boost though. So 5psi might well be fine, I honestly don't know though.

 

[Suped]

Woah, that is some serious gains. The figures would be greater for the Type R version then.

 

[andyd]

Tip top. 8)

Peak power at 8051rpm :wink:

Love it, now that's workable. Peak power 8k rpm, set limiter to 8650 rpm, should in theory be safe providing dont use full rpm range in long gears.

Hmmm...

The K20A should also release more power 8)

Due to a 11:5.1 ratio. If you wanted to push the boat out though.

Toda do a HG that rises that further to 11:9.1 8) :shock:

Now that should provide some interesting results.

Andy

 

[User]

Thanks Mersey, good points well made & I'll give it some more thought.

I could do with seeing a RR graph of a car with Toda cams to see at what rpm peak power is made and how much power is available in the mid range.

I did forget to add though, those s/c K20a2's that have had issues appear to have being running high boost though. So 5psi might well be fine, I honestly don't know though.

5 psi is safe. Well, 6psi is likely safe but why take the risk for a couple of extra horses....not worth it.

 

[andyd]

Thanks Mersey, good points well made & I'll give it some more thought.

I could do with seeing a RR graph of a car with Toda cams to see at what rpm peak power is made and how much power is available in the mid range.

I did forget to add though, those s/c K20a2's that have had issues appear to have being running high boost though. So 5psi might well be fine, I honestly don't know though.

5 psi is safe. Well, 6psi is likely safe but why take the risk for a couple of extra horses....not worth it.

If you thinking about going over 5Psi.

Do not use the Jackson S/C, use a system like the comptec or the rotex that has a intercooler.

The Jackson S/C becomes very inefficient over 5Psi, It seems to produce more heat then power above that. This is due to its design, hence the need for a intercooler to drop intake temps and it also keeps the oil temps down. These are the 2 main factors of rapid engine wear.

Andy