Those who have had S2k and DC5, comments please!

[lockwood77]

Guys, before I really make myself look foolish, there is an ongoing discussion here: http://www.itr-dc2.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20089 about the S2k and DC5 (a guy is trying to decide which one to get).

I thought it would be good if someone who had owned both could actually comment, as thus far nobody in that position has. I've had my two-penneth on the DC5 (and probably got my facts wrong in the process, so anyone with knowledge of EP3/DC5 differences beyond the shape would be welcome too! )

Ta! xthumbup

 

[Evs]

Interesting thread, but ultimately pointless imho. I'd just have both if I cba to look after two cars! :lol:

 

[lockwood77]

Well, that is a fair point! They are completely different in so many respects, which was really the first point of my original reply.

Still, I'm not one to turn down a good argument, er, debate! :lol:

 

[Evs]

Yeah that's sort of what I meant xthumbup

If only they made a sort of M-coupe type thing with front longitudinal K20a (or even better a C32b), hard shell, RWD and decent boot/hatch, then that would be just perfect... :idea: 8)

 

[lockwood77]

I've always wondered why nobody (Japanese) has cornered the market in a coupe with Evo-style engine and running gear. Sports styling yet still practical with unsurpassable grunt and grip - now I would pay good money for that!

 

[Evs]

That's another take on it - good point too 8)

Personally I'd prefer NA/RWD to FI/4WD any day of the week though

 

[lockwood77]

I miss my Evo VI :cry:

Nothing I've driven could out-handle that. I'm far from a great driver and I've only driven a few Jap performance cars (RX-7, Scooby P1 and R33 GT-R briefly, 75k miles in DC2s and a couple of thousand in the DC5 now, a few thousand in the Evo), but the only thing close (and possibly better in the right hands) was an S1 Exige that I once drove. Somewhat different animal though, I think you'll agree!

I know it's about the involvement and feel, but the Evo is involving (albeit at licence-losing speeds) and personally I like the smugness that such complete all-weather dominance provides. :lol: :wink:

That said, I suspect my next purchase will be RWD... :?

 

[Evs]

personally I like the smugness that such complete all-weather dominance provides. :lol: :wink:

Personally I prefer the smugness that reasonable fuel economy and servicing costs provide :lol: :wink:

Got to agree on the Exige though, one of those with a K20 transplant would be near-perfect imho.

Difference in views is interesting considering we drive near-identical and very rare cars... :shock:

 

[lockwood77]

Well, the reason I got my DC2 originally (aged 24) was that it was the fastest thing I could afford. I also liked its rarity.

When I could finally afford it, I moved up to an Evo VI. Better in almost every respect in terms of performance, but as you note, the cost was running costs of 50% more (insurance, petrol, servicing, consumables). It was still rare as well!

Sadly, I was car-jacked at gunpoint one month after I bought it. Anti-hijack saved the car, but it didn't save an insurance claim or my confidence in driving one around Nottingham. So I sold it a few months later and went back to a DC2, as once again it was the fastest thing I could afford whilst fulfilling what I needed (decent boot/rear seats, rarity etc.)

I got the DC5 because, in this form, it's about halfway to my Evo (only had de-cat and filter mods, c.300bhp according to others' RR results). Taking into account transmission losses, my DC5 has about the same power to weight, although the torque is a long way off!

Similarly, with the fast road setup, grip is superb (although not as much feedback as the DC2, probably about the same as you get from a stock Evo VI IIRC), but I'd wager it couldn't hold onto an Evo round tight corners or in the damp.

I also love the looks and rarity of the DC5, not to mention the better running costs. But if it weren't for the crime, I would have stuck with the Evo.

As I get older though, my tastes are changing (maturing!?), and I am beginning to appreciate that out-and-out speed/grip is not everything. In fact, I am sometimes concerned by how quickly the DC5 does accelerate and it reminds me of life in the Evo - mild cruising to suddenly doubling the speed limit with little time to adjust in-between!


I guess I'm just scared of RWD having never spent time getting to know it. Maybe my 30th birthday will bring sufficient maturity to engage with it! :idea:

 

[Zero7]

Interesting thread, I owned a DC2 in between my EVO6 and Sti-5 RA V-Ltd.

I loved the DC2 so much, the sheer balance of the car and enjoyment it gave was far more rewarding than outright speed, which ultimatley left me a little numb.

With the mods I've added to my DC5 it's not much off an EVO6 pace and is a hell of a lot more fun to drive.

 

[Neil_H]

I have owned both, had my S2000 for 2 years until April this year when I crashed it I have had my DC5 now for about 3 weeks. Very different cars to compare - purpose built roadster vs souped-up coupe/ hatch.....

- The S is much better at getting the power down than the DC5 thanks to being RWD. When I first got the DC5 I wheelspinned when pulling onto a roundabout sharply, where in the same situation the S would have just gripped and propelled me forward. This also negates the dreaded torque steer and IMHO creates a much more refined drive, albeit a bit more hairy in the wet - careful throttle and steering control is required.

- The S is also slightly better at cornering, having a more equal front/ rear balance and being RWD - but the DC5 is still bloody good for a FWD. It takes more concentration to drive the S hard though. The ride is less firm on the S, but you do get a very slight amount of shake when going over bumps, compared with the DC5 which is rock solid having a solid roof. The S is also easier to place on the road due to the huge bonnet in front of you, which you can see all the way to the wheelarches.

- Engines. The DC5 has more power/ torque low down in the rev range, it feels more flexible than the F20C in the S, which really needs to be worked with the gearbox to get the best out of it. At the top end though, the S feels like it has the edge. It also makes a nicer sound (possibly due to the acoustics of being roofless). In terms of outright straight-line speed there's very little in it - wouldn't like to say which was quicker!

- Brakes. The DC5 has the Brembos and the S has some unsightly silver things - but they do work brilliantly, very little difference between them as far as I can see.

- I love both car's interiors. The S has a very snug feel to it, you rest your arm on the transmission tunnel but being 6'2" I did find that I stuck out of the car a bit with the roof down :lol: ...with the roof up though I had loads of headroom. I had the full red interior on mine and it felt very special, and the LED instrument panel is fantastic - I really miss this. The rev counter is just so easy to read. The seats aren't as good as the Recaros on the DC5, which really grip you in place. I love the red lighting on the dash as well, and having a double din slot is a bonus if you like flashy head units - always bothered me that you couldn't get a screen in the S2000.

- Looks. Very subjective obviously, but the DC5 seems to get more attention. That spoiler is perhaps a bit OTT but it's got a purpose at least! From what I've found it's a bit of a marmite car - people either love it or hate it. The S is gorgeous but in an understated way, I prefer the look with the hard top on.

Insurance - they're both expensive to insure, the DC5 is a bit more difficult as a lot of the main insurers don't recognise it. From my own experience the DC5 is a bit more expensive than the S.

I miss my S but the DC5 is a worthy replacement! Loving it.

 

[Duncs]

having only owned 1 honda, this one!
not really qualified to comment but,
i can't see anything on the market at present or likely to be in the future that will give me:-
1. 4 seats
2. boot, its amazing what you can get in
3. fairly economic to run
4. power when you want it, its a pussy when you don't want it or need it
5. drop dead looks, from kids at the end of the street to porker owners
6. take it to the track, drive it home, no hassles
7. it fits my garage
8. wife hates it (always a winner for me!!!, she loves it really but would never admit it to me!!)
9. it has enough toys to keep me cool in summer (air con and yes windows)
10. most of all its different!!!

will the new Civic Type R give me this, well some of, not all, will i buy one, NOT A HOPE!!!!

Most of all i suppose,
The DC5 has soul, (pinching J clarksons thoughts)

 

[g-zone]

Thought this might be of interest as Evs mentioned it briefly. Here's a vid of a K20a powered Exige.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... xige+honda 8)

The Exige/Elise 111R will be my next purchase simply because of the handling fun you can have. I'm going for a test drive in both today!

 

[Si]

Hi Lockwood.....

Ive been away and only just noticed this thread!

I haven't read the whole of the thread yet but the std S does tend to handle/feel better on our less well maintained roads due to its UK setup.

 

[MarkyD]

In reply to the original post:

I have been lucky enough to own both cars and can testify they are very different machines to drive. I’m a very enthusiastic driver and had always owned fwd cars until buying the s2 new last year. I didn’t really have many problems with switching to rwd but the steering on the s2 felt lifeless. In fact the handling in general was a bit of a disapointment. When pushed to the limit though it was a real adrenalin car with good grip which never snapped into wild over steer and was quite difficult to unsettle. I did very soon get tired of the lifeless feel though and having driven a dc5 before i needed to swop.

I have owned my dc5 for 6 months now and every time i take it for a drive it amazes me! I would never say it is as fast as the s2 in a straight line but round the twisty bits being fwd and being able to feel the road through the car i’m alot more confident and as a result faster. For me the dc5 ticks all the right boxes, it doesnt ruin my hair when i drive it and you can fit 2 mountain bikes in the back!

I don’t know of many other cars in this price bracket with anywhere near as much driver appeal.

 

[Hybrid-Theory]

I would buy another S2K in a flash if i didnt have other commitments and like Evs said have both.

Would have to agree with MarkyD too as i was never comfortable driving the S2K in the rain when the tyres were cold. but had some great tuition since.