Toda valve springs?
- Thread starter armjoker
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changing valve springs alone is pointless unless you have an aftermarket ecu so the max rpm can be altered.
however with std cams the power is finished at around 8900/9000 so there is no real gain there. It will rev but not make any power, its a bit of a waste of time to get 200 rpm more from the engine imo.
however with std cams the power is finished at around 8900/9000 so there is no real gain there. It will rev but not make any power, its a bit of a waste of time to get 200 rpm more from the engine imo.
This question isn't really answerable...
Why do you want toda or any other uprated valve springs? do you have aftermarket cams?
As for single or dual, both are just as good, but they produce different harmonic noise.. (sorry.. language barrier).
The K20A(2) has been quite randomly shipped from the factory with different valve spring setups. Some have single, some dual. Some have single exhaust, dual intake etc.
If your not sure what your doing, don't do it. messing with the valvetrain isn't something you should do without proper knowledge.
For example, IPS K2 cams requires the S2000 outer intake valve spring and the DC5 type-r intake inner spring. This combination gives a very good harmonic noise for these cams. Even thought these parts are from the honda factory, no other cams (oem / aftermarket) should be used with it as the wrong harmonics will upset the valvetrain.
Now this isn't something that they just figured out in a afternoon.. it takes a lot of work to measure valve springs..
If your goal is to rev the car higher, then you will need more than just valve springs (con rods, S2000 oil pump at least). And to have some joy from the extra xxxrpm, you'll need a properly breathing engine to begin with.. whats to point in reving the car higher if there isn't any more power available after about 8700rpm?
My K20A with IPS K2, and the OEM valvetrain combo:
Why do you want toda or any other uprated valve springs? do you have aftermarket cams?
As for single or dual, both are just as good, but they produce different harmonic noise.. (sorry.. language barrier).
The K20A(2) has been quite randomly shipped from the factory with different valve spring setups. Some have single, some dual. Some have single exhaust, dual intake etc.
If your not sure what your doing, don't do it. messing with the valvetrain isn't something you should do without proper knowledge.
For example, IPS K2 cams requires the S2000 outer intake valve spring and the DC5 type-r intake inner spring. This combination gives a very good harmonic noise for these cams. Even thought these parts are from the honda factory, no other cams (oem / aftermarket) should be used with it as the wrong harmonics will upset the valvetrain.
Now this isn't something that they just figured out in a afternoon.. it takes a lot of work to measure valve springs..
If your goal is to rev the car higher, then you will need more than just valve springs (con rods, S2000 oil pump at least). And to have some joy from the extra xxxrpm, you'll need a properly breathing engine to begin with.. whats to point in reving the car higher if there isn't any more power available after about 8700rpm?
My K20A with IPS K2, and the OEM valvetrain combo:
armjoker
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The reason of changing the springs is after market ecu 9200 rpm.Kinli said:
I dont change it for power gain tbh. Just i dont want to have problem with engine later on. cos its recommended to have reinforced valve springs. I dont have any plans in future to change cams.
I have K20A (isnt all k20a come with same valve springs?)
The point for reving high can be that I change gears later the others and gain some time
So what u guys say its useless to change only springs if Im not going to change other things with ecu?
I have AEM cai and mugen N1 only
This sounds really scary..armjoker said:The reason of changing the springs is after market ecu 9200 rpm.
I dont change it for power gain tbh. Just i dont want to have problem with engine later on. cos its recommended to have reinforced valve springs. I dont have any plans in future to change cams.
I have K20A (isnt all k20a come with same valve springs?)
The point for reving high can be that I change gears later the others and gain some time
So what u guys say its useless to change only springs if Im not going to change other things with ecu?
I have AEM cai and mugen N1 only
You are going to modify you valvetrain with random bits and pieces just because of that sh!tty mugen ecu?!? honestly, do yourself AND YOUR CAR a big favor, DITCH it and get the K100!
Anyway, the K20A DOES come with different valve spring setups. the only way to know what your engine has got is to pop the valve cover off and see for yourself.
Please do understand, that stiffer valve springs (especially toda) are designed for the toda cams or other different / bigger cams. you can't just mix different components of the valvetrain like that. Mugen does sell valve springs but not cams afaik, so apparently these valve springs could be suited for the OEM cams (don't quote me on that)..
Changing gear later is pointless if your just loosing power at the top. Your car won't go any faster but the engine will..
Get yourself a shiftlight instead and learn to powershift (bye bye gearbox
).
CJ DC5
Advanced Member
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Kinli said:This sounds really scary..armjoker said:The reason of changing the springs is after market ecu 9200 rpm.
I dont change it for power gain tbh. Just i dont want to have problem with engine later on. cos its recommended to have reinforced valve springs. I dont have any plans in future to change cams.
I have K20A (isnt all k20a come with same valve springs?)
The point for reving high can be that I change gears later the others and gain some time
So what u guys say its useless to change only springs if Im not going to change other things with ecu?
I have AEM cai and mugen N1 only
You are going to modify you valvetrain with random bits and pieces just because of that sh!tty mugen ecu?!? honestly, do yourself AND YOUR CAR a big favor, DITCH it and get the K100!
Anyway, the K20A DOES come with different valve spring setups. the only way to know what your engine has got is to pop the valve cover off and see for yourself.
Please do understand, that stiffer valve springs (especially toda) are designed for the toda cams or other different / bigger cams. you can't just mix different components of the valvetrain like that. Mugen does sell valve springs but not cams afaik, so apparently these valve springs could be suited for the OEM cams (don't quote me on that)..
Changing gear later is pointless if your just loosing power at the top. Your car won't go any faster but the engine will..
Get yourself a shiftlight instead and learn to powershift (bye bye gearbox
Hi Kinli, didn‘t even know the K20a came with different valve spring setup, was thinking there are all dual spring design from the factory in Japan, learn something everyday
So, at the safe side, what is the least upgrade/ new application would require for K20a and not cause real damage to rev to 9~9.2k RPM(not revving to 9k all the time = Daily drive), as I'll be getting the ECU very soon also, OEM spring design only good under heat/ stress ~9k RPM max as I understand, TGM did say to me no upgrade require as not revving to 9k all the time :-k
CJ 8)
I'm on holiday at the moment so the pics will come later.
The oil pump is really pushing the limits after 9000rpm. google or search at k20a.org. looooots of tests / information available.
ERL sells a modified S2000 pump with all the needed parts. Highly recommended if one is planning a engine build for a longer powerband.
con rods are also pushing the limits at 9000rpm+ so they should be also be upgraded.
The different valve spring setups that comes with the K20a(2) are irrelevant if you are anyway going to rev over the stock rev limiter. I can't give any suggestions on valve springs / retainers / cotters etc. valvetrain parts as it all depends on what cams you are going to use. And usually the cam manufacturer knows what springs / valve (cold / hot) lash settings / retainers etc. goes with their cams..
And again, No point in upgrading the valvetrain without cams or even less for a simple ecu. :roll:
The oil pump is really pushing the limits after 9000rpm. google or search at k20a.org. looooots of tests / information available.
ERL sells a modified S2000 pump with all the needed parts. Highly recommended if one is planning a engine build for a longer powerband.
con rods are also pushing the limits at 9000rpm+ so they should be also be upgraded.
The different valve spring setups that comes with the K20a(2) are irrelevant if you are anyway going to rev over the stock rev limiter. I can't give any suggestions on valve springs / retainers / cotters etc. valvetrain parts as it all depends on what cams you are going to use. And usually the cam manufacturer knows what springs / valve (cold / hot) lash settings / retainers etc. goes with their cams..
And again, No point in upgrading the valvetrain without cams or even less for a simple ecu. :roll: