an even better setup would be to be running cut-slicks and the fast road setup, having dodgy camber cant be doing the car or its handling any good. It may be able to grip better with just the tyres but im sure it would 'handle' better with properly set up geometry. its abit unfair comparing tyres with suspension setup because the tyres are the only thing actually touching the ground. Just my personal opinion thou... :wink:
what next??
- Thread starter mikegsi
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conoroneill
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Sorry mate but that's some of the worst advice I've ever heard.Jayk said:mike i was happy with my set up to be honest as standard with eibach springs, the only reason i did it was to prevent tyre wear as much as i would with the cambers to far out. after having it i havent noticed much difference at all in the drive. you can tell by looking at your current tyre wear, or the side of the car from the back if you cambers are out. if they dont look too bad then i wouldnt bother to be honest. mine rears where out a degree and a quater more than they should be, and still are, my fronts were only half a degree out. at the mo i have an oversteer set up. i think it makes more difference if you have normal road tyres, but i have semi slicks so the grip is amazing!
id say look at your car, make your judgement, then get some semi slicks, i tell you what you can make all the suspension geo changes you want but have some really sticky tyres makes the difference. i cant believe how fast i can corner with these tyres, it is amazing, putting coilovers and set up etc with stock tyres is nowhere as good as eibachs on stock dampers with semi slicks, set up to how i drive!!
You're advising people to lower their car with complete disregard to how it will alter the geometry (which will be different in every case) and put a set of semi slick tyres on in the heart of winter?
I'd take all your points and advise the polar opposite I'm afraid.
I agree with conoroneill. I'd personally much prefer to have properly set up geometry and relatively low-grip tyres tbh. I'd rather have consistent behaviour than just relying on sticky tyres.
It needn't cost more than about £200-250 to sort the geometry out properly - you'll need some adjustable camber arms for the rear (£100-150ish?), and at the front you can either get replacement front strut bolts that allow some adjustment where the strut bolts to the hub carrier (£10-20ish?), OR get some aftermarket adjustable top mounts. The adjustable top mounts usually have pillow ball bearings instead of rubber, which are harsher but feel more positive. These will cost another £100-150ish I expect.
Then add on whatever they charge you for fitting the parts and setting it all up. Shouldn't take more than a couple of hours or so. HTH?
It needn't cost more than about £200-250 to sort the geometry out properly - you'll need some adjustable camber arms for the rear (£100-150ish?), and at the front you can either get replacement front strut bolts that allow some adjustment where the strut bolts to the hub carrier (£10-20ish?), OR get some aftermarket adjustable top mounts. The adjustable top mounts usually have pillow ball bearings instead of rubber, which are harsher but feel more positive. These will cost another £100-150ish I expect.
Then add on whatever they charge you for fitting the parts and setting it all up. Shouldn't take more than a couple of hours or so. HTH?
My quotes, there fair, and i did mention "setup" in there! dont know how you read that!conoroneill said:Sorry mate but that's some of the worst advice I've ever heard.Jayk said:mike i was happy with my set up to be honest as standard with eibach springs, the only reason i did it was to prevent tyre wear as much as i would with the cambers to far out. after having it i havent noticed much difference at all in the drive. you can tell by looking at your current tyre wear, or the side of the car from the back if you cambers are out. if they dont look too bad then i wouldnt bother to be honest. mine rears where out a degree and a quater more than they should be, and still are, my fronts were only half a degree out. at the mo i have an oversteer set up. i think it makes more difference if you have normal road tyres, but i have semi slicks so the grip is amazing!
id say look at your car, make your judgement, then get some semi slicks, i tell you what you can make all the suspension geo changes you want but have some really sticky tyres makes the difference. i cant believe how fast i can corner with these tyres, it is amazing, putting coilovers and set up etc with stock tyres is nowhere as good as eibachs on stock dampers with semi slicks, set up to how i drive!!
You're advising people to lower their car with complete disregard to how it will alter the geometry (which will be different in every case) and put a set of semi slick tyres on in the heart of winter?
I'd take all your points and advise the polar opposite I'm afraid.
id say look at your car, make your judgement,
eibachs on stock dampers with semi slicks, set up to how i drive!!
im not advising that, i said by looking at your car you can tell if it is out or not, mine by lowering 30mm didnt put the fronts out to much only buy 0.25 a degree, the rears by 0.75 a degree. Also depends how you drive, there is no "fast road set up" its how you want the car to behave and how you drive, on track of track, etc. Do you get understeer? Do you want it dialed out? do you want it to snap or be progressive? etc etc. As mine has been set up with my slicks, which are very sticky therefore i only needed 0.5 a degree camber on the front (the way i drive). It all ties together. However as the cambers where hardly out, it hasnt made much difference, obviously if your cambers are out by alot, and thats not how you drive, then change them.
Slikcs are fine at this time of the year, i dont drive hard in the wet at all, never have never will, so there not a problem, in the damp there fine, only on motorway trips/standing water have they ever ticked me off, but you slow down. If it snows i use another car! Dont see the problem there!
P.S Mardi Gras £150,000 DC5 race car runs approx 3 degree at rears, forgot the front, as i remeber stewart telling me i am running almost race car set at rears.
Stock is approx: 0.50 @ front and 0.75 at rear. Theres no way with stock tyres id have that setup as there would be far to much understeer to the way i drive, but due to the stickyness of the tyres i can have that at the front.
Hope that makes more sense.
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decided after a bit more deliberation that i'll get the baffled sump done instead of the fast road setup, cant really afford both as well as the b&m short shifter and the dics im about to buy off paul G,
im happy enough with the way the car handles, and am hopingg to do tracks this year other than croft (which only has 2 relatively slow left handers) this being the case i think the baffled sump is more important to help prevent oil surge on the left handers at speed, if i had the fast road set up this would theoretically mean i would go round the corners a little quicker, poss causes more g and more risk of oil surge, as such i think it makes more sense if i cover this possiblity with the baffled sump and get the fast setup at a later date.............
what you reckon??
im happy enough with the way the car handles, and am hopingg to do tracks this year other than croft (which only has 2 relatively slow left handers) this being the case i think the baffled sump is more important to help prevent oil surge on the left handers at speed, if i had the fast road set up this would theoretically mean i would go round the corners a little quicker, poss causes more g and more risk of oil surge, as such i think it makes more sense if i cover this possiblity with the baffled sump and get the fast setup at a later date.............
what you reckon??
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- 8,229
Mike, you should call Tom, i know its a fair trip but it will be worth it, he does his own baffled sump (which all his racecars and i use) at a much reduced cost compared to spoon. It is a big job to fit and may cost more than the sump as the complete front subframe needs to be removed to acces the sump.
You will get a full geo setup inc parts there for £200.
There is much more to tyre wear than just too much negative camber, in fact neg camber gives less tyre wear than having the toe settings incorrect :wink:
Have you even had the geometyr settings checked since fitting the springs?
Until you have good coilovers and slicks i would not worry about oil surge, just overfill by 2 mm as we all do.
You will get a full geo setup inc parts there for £200.
There is much more to tyre wear than just too much negative camber, in fact neg camber gives less tyre wear than having the toe settings incorrect :wink:
Have you even had the geometyr settings checked since fitting the springs?
Until you have good coilovers and slicks i would not worry about oil surge, just overfill by 2 mm as we all do.