Alignment

Crackfox

Advanced Member
Messages
617
Thought I'd do an update to tidy this thread up. Got the Meisters off yesterday at TGM and swapped for B14's. Defiantly well worth the upgrade. Night and day in comparison, much less of a thud when going over bumps/man hole covers etc. Did 220 miles on them back from TGM and other than the numb ass, thoroughly enjoyed the ride. Took the car to a more "fruity" speed for the first time since I've owned it.

Still not ironed out the handling issues completely, but that's Area and TGM now that have said to get the 225's off and get some 215's, so that will probably be my next big move. Unfortunately there is a fair bit of tread on my current rubber, so not prepared to throw that away just yet. But when they're due I'll defiantly be dropped a size. Got a few other jobs to be getting on with in the mean time.
 

carl hammond

Advanced Member
Messages
3,349
Crackfox said:
Thought I'd do an update to tidy this thread up. Got the Meisters off yesterday at TGM and swapped for B14's. Defiantly well worth the upgrade. Night and day in comparison, much less of a thud when going over bumps/man hole covers etc. Did 220 miles on them back from TGM and other than the numb ass, thoroughly enjoyed the ride. Took the car to a more "fruity" speed for the first time since I've owned it.

Still not ironed out the handling issues completely, but that's Area and TGM now that have said to get the 225's off and get some 215's, so that will probably be my next big move. Unfortunately there is a fair bit of tread on my current rubber, so not prepared to throw that away just yet. But when they're due I'll defiantly be dropped a size. Got a few other jobs to be getting on with in the mean time.
Where are you based mate and what tyres are you using ?

Glad the Bilsteins are a nice change and you like them, I love my B16's and will be sad to see them go tbh
 

Crackfox

Advanced Member
Messages
617
carl hammond said:
Where are you based mate and what tyres are you using ?

Glad the Bilsteins are a nice change and you like them, I love my B16's and will be sad to see them go tbh
Grimsby. They're Avon ZV7 225 45 17's
 

carl hammond

Advanced Member
Messages
3,349
Grimsby. They're Avon ZV7 225 45 17's
Oh damn not close then, was going to saw fit a set of my spare wheels for a few days and see how they feel as one set has 215/45/17's on them mate, maybe someone more local can help with that as it can rule that out, but I run 225,45,17 on mine and it's never been an issue (I kinda hate it when I re-fit the 215's) lol
 

Crackfox

Advanced Member
Messages
617
carl hammond said:
Oh damn not close then, was going to saw fit a set of my spare wheels for a few days and see how they feel as one set has 215/45/17's on them mate, maybe someone more local can help with that as it can rule that out, but I run 225,45,17 on mine and it's never been an issue (I kinda hate it when I re-fit the 215's) lol
I think part of the issue is the tyre being quite a soft wall to be honest. But with 2 reputable people now saying go 215 it's swayed my decision. Having away for 3 months it'll probably run into early next year before i need to change them anyway.
 

Mike9000

Advanced Member
Messages
227
If it helps I have a pair of ZV7's in 215/45 sat in my garage and they lasted 700 miles on my car before I got them removed.

I wouldn't slate them as rubbish tyres (hands up ling long skid masters!) but they didn't seem to have enough dry grip and it felt like I was leaning into the soft sidewalls too much if that makes sense. I just didn't like them. I had good experience on AD08's on my Elise so didn't hesitate in getting a fresh set put on my car, aided by the old Yoko's on the rear that came on the car from Japan being about 5 or 6 years old and needing changing.
 

VtecPaul

Advanced Member
Messages
196
Sorry to bump an old thread, but thought it best rather than starting a new one!
@Crackfox - did you ever get to the bottom of what the OEM ride height was? I’ve found many different measurements on here and internet.

Some posts suggest a 380mm front vs 355mm rear (arch to wheel centre) - my DC5 is on meisterR coilovers too, with current measurements around 332mm front and rear. It is pulling to the right a bit but had recent 4 wheel alignment done. I measured and think my drivers side is lower than passenger which could be contributing to the issue though...

TGT supplied and fitted the MeisterRs too, car hasn’t done a whole load of miles since fitting back in 2019, but the handling feels a little wayward and Id like to get to the bottom of it. The AD08Rs could well be contributing to the mix, but I’ll only replace them when they’re worn out.

Cheers!
 

carl hammond

Advanced Member
Messages
3,349
Sorry to bump an old thread, but thought it best rather than starting a new one!
@Crackfox - did you ever get to the bottom of what the OEM ride height was? I’ve found many different measurements on here and internet.

Some posts suggest a 380mm front vs 355mm rear (arch to wheel centre) - my DC5 is on meisterR coilovers too, with current measurements around 332mm front and rear. It is pulling to the right a bit but had recent 4 wheel alignment done. I measured and think my drivers side is lower than passenger which could be contributing to the issue though...

TGT supplied and fitted the MeisterRs too, car hasn’t done a whole load of miles since fitting back in 2019, but the handling feels a little wayward and Id like to get to the bottom of it. The AD08Rs could well be contributing to the mix, but I’ll only replace them when they’re worn out.

Cheers!
OEM Height Measurements (from the wheel arch to the middle of the centre cap on the wheels)
Front - 38cm
Rear - 35.5cm

Does it happen all the time? These can wander a bit as they will follow the contours of the road so to speak, but it shouldn't pull to one side as such unless the road has bad camber
 

VtecPaul

Advanced Member
Messages
196
Yeah it pulls to the right continually. It’s not BAD as such, but it’s enough to warrant investigation IMO. Every single car I’ve owned has pulled left slightly, mainly due to road camber, but pulling right is bad due to oncoming traffic etc.
your heights mean I’ve had nearly 50mm drop at the front which I didn’t think was possible without other supporting mods..?
 

VtecPaul

Advanced Member
Messages
196
Do you have your car set up at same height all around, or is your rear higher to help with turn in?
 

carl hammond

Advanced Member
Messages
3,349
Do you have your car set up at same height all around, or is your rear higher to help with turn in?
Mine setup purely for track mate so mines a bad base to go from, every corners diff to the last for height, camber etc as it’s fully corner weighted for my weight and driving style so mines not really able to be used as a guide I’m afraid :-(

Tyre pressures all the same? Tread even wear etc ?
 

Crackfox

Advanced Member
Messages
617
Sorry to bump an old thread, but thought it best rather than starting a new one!
@Crackfox - did you ever get to the bottom of what the OEM ride height was? I’ve found many different measurements on here and internet.

Some posts suggest a 380mm front vs 355mm rear (arch to wheel centre) - my DC5 is on meisterR coilovers too, with current measurements around 332mm front and rear. It is pulling to the right a bit but had recent 4 wheel alignment done. I measured and think my drivers side is lower than passenger which could be contributing to the issue though...

TGT supplied and fitted the MeisterRs too, car hasn’t done a whole load of miles since fitting back in 2019, but the handling feels a little wayward and Id like to get to the bottom of it. The AD08Rs could well be contributing to the mix, but I’ll only replace them when they’re worn out.

Cheers!
The Bilsteins made a huge difference to mine over the meisters.

As Carl said with ride height. However, from what I could find, steering arms are at the same height as the standard Acura rsx, but the car sits 20mm lower put of the box. So any lowering you do has to account for the additional 20mm as well. So a 30mm drop is effectively a 50mm drop.

That wont help with a right pull though. If you drivers side is lower, then it will be even more so with you in it. I'm not saying you should try and account for your weight, as that would be better of done by the pro's as Carl had. But its worth bareing in mind as it should be at least level when sat.

With my limited knowledge I also believe it then affects the rear near side, in a diagonal if you adjust it. You also need to make sure when measuring that the car is sat on a perfect level as that will effect it a lot. You might be reading it out on one side due to a dip. And don't assume that banging it on a ramp at the local spanner shop means it is either. Check it.

Food for thought. I did a mile trip on some backnroads with 75kg of plaster in the boot yesterday. I spread the weight, mainly to stop the boot liner caving in, and turn in was badly affected. So imagine your assumed height difference, plus you in it, affecting that one rear corner. I would think that would cause some handling issues on one side. You'd effectively be lifting the rear nearside, which I THINK would cause lighter steering to the right. So you might be feeling the normal wandering of the car Carl mentioned, but exasperated to one side. Purely a guess though.
 

VtecPaul

Advanced Member
Messages
196
Tyres/pressures etc all ok. TGM did the recent 4 wheel alignment and it was much better than before, but still drifting right if I let go of the wheel, slow/high/constant speeds or accelerating.
I’ll keep researching, need to find somewhere local who can spend some time aligning it and adjusting heights properly, think if I went at it I’d just make it worse.
 

carl hammond

Advanced Member
Messages
3,349
Tyres/pressures etc all ok. TGM did the recent 4 wheel alignment and it was much better than before, but still drifting right if I let go of the wheel, slow/high/constant speeds or accelerating.
I’ll keep researching, need to find somewhere local who can spend some time aligning it and adjusting heights properly, think if I went at it I’d just make it worse.
Where are you based? My geo guy would have a look for you or if needed come have a drive of mine and see how it compares and if wanted I’d have a drive of yours to have a feel for it as I’m only in West Malling Kent mate
 

carl hammond

Advanced Member
Messages
3,349
The Bilsteins made a huge difference to mine over the meisters.

As Carl said with ride height. However, from what I could find, steering arms are at the same height as the standard Acura rsx, but the car sits 20mm lower put of the box. So any lowering you do has to account for the additional 20mm as well. So a 30mm drop is effectively a 50mm drop.

That wont help with a right pull though. If you drivers side is lower, then it will be even more so with you in it. I'm not saying you should try and account for your weight, as that would be better of done by the pro's as Carl had. But its worth bareing in mind as it should be at least level when sat.

With my limited knowledge I also believe it then affects the rear near side, in a diagonal if you adjust it. You also need to make sure when measuring that the car is sat on a perfect level as that will effect it a lot. You might be reading it out on one side due to a dip. And don't assume that banging it on a ramp at the local spanner shop means it is either. Check it.

Food for thought. I did a mile trip on some backnroads with 75kg of plaster in the boot yesterday. I spread the weight, mainly to stop the boot liner caving in, and turn in was badly affected. So imagine your assumed height difference, plus you in it, affecting that one rear corner. I would think that would cause some handling issues on one side. You'd effectively be lifting the rear nearside, which I THINK would cause lighter steering to the right. So you might be feeling the normal wandering of the car Carl mentioned, but exasperated to one side. Purely a guess though.
Correct mate, when doing a proper full corner weighted geo it’s done on a diagonal basis and you aim to get the diagonal weight distribution as close to 50/50 as you can.

Mine came close - Full corner weighting with 75kg sand bags (Allowing for me in clothing and a crash helmet) Diagonal balance and it got 50.7.
 

VtecPaul

Advanced Member
Messages
196
Cheers for the offer Carl, I’m in Hampshire so a fair bit of a trek really. I’ll keep reading up on what I can find out - tbh if I found some Mugen Showa suspension I’d probably grab with both hands, but may settle to keep these or perhaps get OEM shocks and Eibach Pro springs. Trouble is I won’t want used OEM shocks as not sure how knackered they’d be - and therefore have to find some OE equivalents which feels like I’m cheapening the car tbh.
will keep thinking.
 

VtecPaul

Advanced Member
Messages
196
Ok, so got the car in the garage today, checked garage floor with a spirit level and all seems pretty level but meant putting my car in a double garage at an angle to access all 4 corners.
clearly previous location wasn’t level, as the car measures pretty near bang on in terms of height at each corner.

Front (NS /OS)
Arch to centre of wheel: 330 / 330 mm
Arch to wheel edge: 92 / 92 mm
Arch to floor: 626 / 626 mm

Rear (NS / OS) :
Arch to centre of wheel: 335 / 332 mm
Arch to wheel edge: 92 / 92 mm
Arch to floor: 633 / 634 mm

Interestingly, floor to bottom of skirt at the rear has a 5mm difference across the width of the car, but I’m putting this down to skirts not fitting the same, hanging slightly via the clips. (160mm floor to sskirt)

Approx height to mirrors is 860mm
Approx height to roof is 1340mm.
(Both of these very approximate, measuring tricky)

All in all, I don’t think these contribute to the drifting right.
I think next steps is to get it to another garage to align again, and ensure the steering wheel is straight as they do so.
 

VtecPaul

Advanced Member
Messages
196
Taking the links provided earlier to standard dimensions of a dc5 suggests my car has a 45mm drop (from roof measurement)

note my mirror measurements above are to base of mirror, not centre as per the OEM diagram. I make the mirrors 140mm high, so adding half of this to my measurements gives 930mm vs the 985mm standard. It’s not unexpected that my measurements are all a little out tho due to tools used! (And me operating them!)

Above info may help a future reader perhaps.
 
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