Any advice on braceing down a Gruppe M

[sonicboom1]

As above.Have had it fitted but it rattles a little in low revs and stuff.Anyone forund a way to stop it rattleing?

Cheers folks

 

[gregb]

mine vibrated a lot from 4-6000 revs and i found it was the plastic replacement for the windscreen bottom.
just tap a long it it may need some insulating.

 

[Rob-DC2]

hmm sounds dodgy i would sell it to me

 

[User]

Engine mounts, that's the way to stop it rattling.

:wink:

 

[sonicboom1]

whats the best kinda mounts to get ?

and what kinda price we talkin ?

 

[ejwillistyles]

i have tried various things, currently running some ghetto foam type pads along the top of the the front upper strut brace, and the underside of the bonnet and seems to cut out most movement /rattles/ issues!

good luck!!

 

[Gary]

whats the best kinda mounts to get ?

and what kinda price we talkin ?

Be wary of changing your engine mounts as you may find that it will ruin the day to day driving experience of your car!
I know guys who race DC5's and they advise keeping the OE items, with the aftermarket mounts significantly increasing the already not insignificant engine vibration, in fact if memory serves, Jonster changed his engine mounts only to change them back again within a month as he found the harshness unacceptable :!:

 

[sonicboom1]

To answer my own question

I got a mate of mine to get some stuff off his work.Its like 5mm wetsuit material with a sticky side.I put a strip on the underside of the Gruppe M.A strip on the scuttle pannel and a strip on the top of the Gruppe M.Now when u close the bonnet it holds it niceley in place.

The jobs a good un

Cheers for the replies on the engine mounts tho.

 

[SiKBoY]

whats the best kinda mounts to get ?

and what kinda price we talkin ?

Be wary of changing your engine mounts as you may find that it will ruin the day to day driving experience of your car!
I know guys who race DC5's and they advise keeping the OE items, with the aftermarket mounts significantly increasing the already not insignificant engine vibration, in fact if memory serves, Jonster changed his engine mounts only to change them back again within a month as he found the harshness unacceptable :!:

I disagree I have got uprated engine mounts and they are tons better than the OEM ones, the vibrations thru the car arnt as intrusive as you'd think. Plus I have now set my idle slightly higher so there is now less vibrations. In terms of day to day driving I can say it has improved things dramatically !

 

[jonster]

It's each to their own with this really. I've finally settled on Mugen mounts as a compromise. I decided to get these for preventative action against snapping the TODA flex pipe not especially for stopping GruppeM rattles. It will rattle because it can flop about irrespective of the engine flex. It will creak as the engine moves on it's mounts when you engage the drive though. This is where mounts do help. The wetsuit material solution sounds like a plan. I may give that a go.

 

[User]

I've got the energy EM's too - at first I did think wtf have I done - but after just a few days, you suddenly start to think it's not bad at all.

I swear they actually soften up a little after a month or so too.

There's no way I could go back to OE mounts now - the engine rocks around in the bay way too much, the gruppe m consequently unbolts itself every couple of days and generally rattles like a french car.

The benefits are straight forward - gruppe m stays firmly in place, toda manifold isn't getting knocked about - and the throttle response is just so crisp.

I watched my car on a rolling road and seen how much the engine moves around with OE mounts - scary. Very scary.

 

[Evs]

User - as usual I completely agree with you. 8)

I have ESMMs and a J's Racing ETD. These were my thoughts on the ESMMs when I had them fitted

In terms of the ESMMs, the short answer is yes they do make the car a fair bit harsher than standard. I've only driven it back from Warrington and was pretty tired, so not done a lot of analysis on it. There's a fair bit more vibration through the seat and steering wheel at idle, and there's some more buzz on overrun. The car is generally noisier but some of this could be down to the decat which has made the exhaust a bit louder. It has a more 'gravelly' note to it which is noticeable even at idle. Apart from that it's not too bad - Once the engine is spun up past about 1500rpm it's fine. I sat on the motorway at various *cough* cruising speeds and tbh it's perfectly tolerable.

On the positive side, the car feels much more responsive pulling away from rest, when accelerating (particularly in lower gears), and when picking up the throttle on the exit of a corner. The gearchange also seems more precise, in particular when changing up at high revs.

Overall it's made the car feel generally much more responsive, and a lot more businesslike and 'hardcore'. This is no bad thing in my book, and the advantages are worth the downsides, so the ESMMs will be staying.

Over time it has seemed to settle down and the vibration has become less noticeable, whether this is because there is less of it, or I've got used to it, is difficult to say. I since fitted the ETD and it added a bit more NVH, but over time that has become less noticeable too.

My GruppeM still squeaks a bit at low revs & when pulling away from rest, but there seems to be very little movement, it's just the rubber lip around the mouth of the airbox rubbing against the scuttle - probably fixable with some foam or double-sided tape.

As Jon says though, everyone has their own views on what extra harshness is acceptable, and what is a reasonable trade-off for the extra response.

 

[User]

User - as usual I completely agree with you. 8)

My GruppeM still squeaks a bit at low revs & when pulling away from rest, but there seems to be very little movement, it's just the rubber lip around the mouth of the airbox rubbing against the scuttle - probably fixable with some foam or double-sided tape.

Re: the squeek - I sorted this by rubbing engine oil into the scuttle panel and into the rubber lip.

Also - I found a bolt on the gruppe m constantly unscrewed itself - that got introduced to my friend - threadlock. Ahh the wonders of threadlock.

We're getting to know every nook and cranny of these cars now - it's all good. 8) BTW - Black Pro Race 1.2's (17 inch) arrived today, fitted - look the dogs plums.

 

[Evs]

Thanks for the tip - spot of lube sounds good, will try that at the weekend I think.

I threadlocked a few of the bolts on my GruppeM on installation as I didn't trust them to stay put! Not had any problems with them coming loose.

Wheels sound good, I've got them in silver on a black car. Get some pics up then... :idea:

 

[Rick]

I had same problem. I braced it using cable ties. The GruppeM comes with some double sided sticky rubber.

1) Remove the carbon fibre chamber
2) place some double sided sticky rubber in 3 places along the strut brace
3) Tie 3 cable ties (but not tighten) round the struct brace at the double sided pads (the pads are there to stop the ties slipping)
4) Through each of the ties, thread another tie (it maybe 2 ties connected together). Tighten the 3 ties along the top of the brace.
5) on the carbon fibre chamber, place some more sticky rubber so the cable ties dont slip or rub the carbon fibre.
6) Take the cable tie you threaded along the top of the strut brace and join them together along the top of the chamber.
7) Tighten all up.

FURTHER SQUEEKING ISSUE

I thought the GruppeM was also making a loud squeeking/creaking sound. On further investigation this turned out to be a plastic and rubber clamp which secures the AC piping to the bodywork just behind the engine. It is safe to remove this if necessary.

This is an easy and non-destructive way of securing the chamber

 

[gregb]

User - as usual I completely agree with you. 8)

I have ESMMs and a J's Racing ETD. These were my thoughts on the ESMMs when I had them fitted

In terms of the ESMMs, the short answer is yes they do make the car a fair bit harsher than standard. I've only driven it back from Warrington and was pretty tired, so not done a lot of analysis on it. There's a fair bit more vibration through the seat and steering wheel at idle, and there's some more buzz on overrun. The car is generally noisier but some of this could be down to the decat which has made the exhaust a bit louder. It has a more 'gravelly' note to it which is noticeable even at idle. Apart from that it's not too bad - Once the engine is spun up past about 1500rpm it's fine. I sat on the motorway at various *cough* cruising speeds and tbh it's perfectly tolerable.

On the positive side, the car feels much more responsive pulling away from rest, when accelerating (particularly in lower gears), and when picking up the throttle on the exit of a corner. The gearchange also seems more precise, in particular when changing up at high revs.

Overall it's made the car feel generally much more responsive, and a lot more businesslike and 'hardcore'. This is no bad thing in my book, and the advantages are worth the downsides, so the ESMMs will be staying.

Over time it has seemed to settle down and the vibration has become less noticeable, whether this is because there is less of it, or I've got used to it, is difficult to say. I since fitted the ETD and it added a bit more NVH, but over time that has become less noticeable too.

My GruppeM still squeaks a bit at low revs & when pulling away from rest, but there seems to be very little movement, it's just the rubber lip around the mouth of the airbox rubbing against the scuttle - probably fixable with some foam or double-sided tape.

As Jon says though, everyone has their own views on what extra harshness is acceptable, and what is a reasonable trade-off for the extra response.

evs can you evaluate more on what esmm`s stands for and j`s racing etd as i would like to get a better compromise on my teg.
after a track day and some adjustments on the j`s racing engine damper the engine is still too free imo.
the amount of movement and lose of power on track day was terrible :?

 

[Evs]

evs can you evaluate more on what esmm`s stands for and j`s racing etd as i would like to get a better compromise on my teg.
after a track day and some adjustments on the j`s racing engine damper the engine is still too free imo.
the amount of movement and lose of power on track day was terrible :?

ESMMs = Energy Suspension Motor Mounts. These are polyurethane inserts that you fit into the OEM motor mounts, they fill the air gap and make them stiffer. System-R supplied and fitted mine, but you can buy them separately from ES dealers like Performance Solution www.performance-solution.co.uk

J's Racing ETD = Engine Torque Damper, sounds like you've already got this? It's a small shock absorber that fits between the strut tower and the engine that reduces fore/aft movement of the engine.

I'd get some ESMMs, they should do what you want. You'll get some increased vibration, but as above my view is that it's worth it.

HTH

 

[gregb]

thanks evs i have the j`s racing etd just didn`t understand the abbrreviation :-k
the essms sounds like a good investment aswell.

 

[terry]

any good/proven way to stop the rattling besides modding OEM scuttle? something easy instead?

 

[dotty]

any good/proven way to stop the rattling besides modding OEM scuttle? something easy instead?

Spoon strut and pipe lagging :idea: