Car feels a bit erratic under acceleration

[Tiffjordan360]

I've only had my Teg a week or so but I have all of the problems previously covered. while Giving it the beans last night on the way home from Plymouth the torque steer was just plain scary!!
The car came with spoon lowering springs, camber arms (with a fast road set up)
And Energy Suspension PolyEurethane bushes.
Would I be right in thinking that the first thing I need to do is change the bushes?
It's very clonky over bumps.
Any advice would be great cheers.


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[nellly]

what are the tyres like? i got rid of a lot of torque steer when i swapped the crappy tyres over to RE070's

 

[Crazylegs]

Without being negative, I just don't think these cars handle that great or as good as many think they do - especially from the factory and even with handling modifications.

They need a decent geometry setup to even begin to get the best out of them. I've never been happy with mine and even since fitting RE070's and camber arms etc I still don't have total confidence in the car compared to previous cars I've owned. I've had CRX VTEC, 306 GTI6 and a 205 GTI in the past and they all handled better and gave more confidence than the DC5.

I feel the Teg is a flabby lady and needs a bit of weight stripped off them, they do feel erratic and back end heavy which to me affects the overall handling. Others will counter argue this of course and I know there are many on here who do have fantastically well handling cars but they've also spent a lot on them.

For instance, on my GTI6 it was on OEM suspension. The only suspension work I had done was to eliminate the rear wheel steer issues but it would outhandle the DC5 in every way, likewise the same of the CRX but it was a much smaller lighter car but neither of them felt erratic, both were extremely well balanced and not scary to drive. I'm no Peugeot fanboi before anyone starts complaining but the DC5 isn't the best out of the box I'm sorry.

 

[Bewesy]

Without being negative, I just don't think these cars handle that great or as good as many think they do - especially from the factory and even with handling modifications.

They need a decent geometry setup to even begin to get the best out of them. I've never been happy with mine and even since fitting RE070's and camber arms etc I still don't have total confidence in the car compared to previous cars I've owned. I've had CRX VTEC, 306 GTI6 and a 205 GTI in the past and they all handled better and gave more confidence than the DC5.

I feel the Teg is a flabby lady and needs a bit of weight stripped off them, they do feel erratic and back end heavy which to me affects the overall handling. Others will counter argue this of course and I know there are many on here who do have fantastically well handling cars but they've also spent a lot on them.

For instance, on my GTI6 it was on OEM suspension. The only suspension work I had done was to eliminate the rear wheel steer issues but it would outhandle the DC5 in every way, likewise the same of the CRX but it was a much smaller lighter car but neither of them felt erratic, both were extremely well balanced and not scary to drive. I'm no Peugeot fanboi before anyone starts complaining but the DC5 isn't the best out of the box I'm sorry.

My GTI6 was the best handling standard car ever....until I bought the DC2. It was better than the old Pug in every way.

The DC5 has potential but agree it feels heavier, and needs minor tweaking to get the best out of it. Mine is off to Grinspeed on Thursday for a full setup. Looking forward to seeing the results.

 

[hondamad2204]

I've only had my Teg a week or so but I have all of the problems previously covered. while Giving it the beans last night on the way home from Plymouth the torque steer was just plain scary!!
The car came with spoon lowering springs, camber arms (with a fast road set up)
And Energy Suspension PolyEurethane bushes.
Would I be right in thinking that the first thing I need to do is change the bushes?
It's very clonky over bumps.
Any advice would be great cheers.


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ok, few things to check. I have the same setup, (bar energy bushes, but uprated hardened rubber instead) and you can accelerate with one finger on the wheel if you wanted.

Having a setup means nothing as it could have set up completely wrongly. Get some decent settings dialled in, have a look on here for some, and that will definitely help. Check your tyres, if they are all different, it will handle like a pig. These cars are really sensitive to any uneven differences. Tyre pressures etc, give them all a check too.

The clunky noise could be anything.... easiest thing to check would be drop links. Could be your bushes, could also be worn shock absorbers, also the Spoon springs have given some people issues with clunking, simple fix is a rubber sleeve over two of the coils to stop them clanging together on compression over a bump. ... there are so many variables unfortunately, but with what you have listed installed above, you should have no issue with any sort of wayward steering. Its probably just a setup aimed at corners rather than straights.

 

[Tiffjordan360]

I have a print out of the setup that was done by A-Line in West Midlands. On 15/12/15 so fairly recent. I've never done anything suspension wise so it doesn't mean a lot to me. Just looks like stuff I used to mess with on Forza!!!
(And usually make it worse ha ha!!)

All tyres are Yokos and feel fairly even

Front left. Front right
Camber: -1 03. -1 02
Caster : 1 48. 2 01
Toe: 0 01. 0 01

Rear left. Rear right
Camber : - 0 47. -0 57
Toe: 0 02. 0 07

Rear total toe 0 09
Thrust angle. -0 02

 

[Tiffjordan360]

Had a bit of a play today. I was wrong. It's not torque steer. It's absolutely fine on smooth roads.
It's just a bit twitchy over bumps .It was obviously just a bumpy road.


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[Rom]

That setup is not good enough.
The car will feel like it's rotating, because the rear toe is out, and the thrust angle is out. This will mean you are correcting the steering to actually go straight.
The rear toe is unacceptable.

Assuming you don't have camber adjustment. Other wise that's not on either.
Everything else being equal, a car will pull to the side with the most positive camber, and the least positive caster.

Running zero toe, will tend to make the car feel less planted, and a little skittish. It will turn in quicker, and have less high speed straight line speed scrub.
It isn't to everyone's liking. Toe is also dependant on speed. Zero static toe, does not equal zero toe at 60moh. You will have toe out at 60, exaggerating the feelings from zero toe.
I've ran both toe in, and zero, and zero feels more prone to torque steer, and generally skittish.

This is what I set mine up to.

Notice my camber and toes are identical (nsr was flickering between 4/5). Caster I can't adjust.

As for the knocking, I've myself, heard 2 tags with knickinoises caused by the rack slider. My own, a knock I would never have thought the slider would cause.

Geo is different for everyone. All you can do, is try others settings, and see if you like them. There is no right or wrong (as long as they are even), you may like toe in, another will like zero toe.
Main struggle is finding somewhere that will get the settings right, and not just 'close enough'.

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[moodyedge]

Without being negative, I just don't think these cars handle that great or as good as many think they do - especially from the factory and even with handling modifications.

They need a decent geometry setup to even begin to get the best out of them. I've never been happy with mine and even since fitting RE070's and camber arms etc I still don't have total confidence in the car compared to previous cars I've owned. I've had CRX VTEC, 306 GTI6 and a 205 GTI in the past and they all handled better and gave more confidence than the DC5.

I feel the Teg is a flabby lady and needs a bit of weight stripped off them, they do feel erratic and back end heavy which to me affects the overall handling. Others will counter argue this of course and I know there are many on here who do have fantastically well handling cars but they've also spent a lot on them.

For instance, on my GTI6 it was on OEM suspension. The only suspension work I had done was to eliminate the rear wheel steer issues but it would outhandle the DC5 in every way, likewise the same of the CRX but it was a much smaller lighter car but neither of them felt erratic, both were extremely well balanced and not scary to drive. I'm no Peugeot fanboi before anyone starts complaining but the DC5 isn't the best out of the box I'm sorry.

Big reason why Im reluctant to get a dc5, all these suspension issues. I had a dc2 first and with just a set of eibach springs fitted it was brilliant just as it was. 5 gears on longer drives though which inevitably lead to me wanting rid of it.

The ones Ive experienced have been rather all over the place at best....so...... :? I dont know what to do.

 

[mikeyw85]

Is it not recommended for front to toe out slightly?

I've recently put Meister R's on the car, which has cured clunking issues. Just need to get camber arms and bolts on before I get it aligned, because it's terrible at the moment.

After a little bit of research I was maybe going to go for 1 deg toe out front, 2 deg toe in rear, and 1 deg neg camber all round.

 

[spooke]

Is it not recommended for front to toe out slightly?

I've recently put Meister R's on the car, which has cured clunking issues. Just need to get camber arms and bolts on before I get it aligned, because it's terrible at the moment.

After a little bit of research I was maybe going to go for 1 deg toe out front, 2 deg toe in rear, and 1 deg neg camber all round.

I wouldn't say so for a daily driver, if it's purely for track yes.

General setup is something like -2 camber front, -1 camber rear (recommended to have half the front on the rear), most run zero front toe and slight toe in rear. You'll need shorter tie rods if you want more than -1.5 camber depending on your ride height.

 

[Rom]

Most oem cars toe in on the front, it's the safest most stable setting.
Everyone running crazy geos, and wondering why the car drives like shit.
Zero toe, is not ideal for a road car. As you accelerate, the wheels naturally toe out. So starting at zero, you are asking for problem's.
Track cars, when they say are set for zero toe, is likely at a given speed. So they are set to have little to zero toe @ 80 mph or something. Zero toe gives less straight line stability, makes the car easier to turn in, and much more susceptible to steering inputs.
Which is not what you want if it's a road car, or if it's not your preferred handling trait.
Toe in will make the car feel more stable and planted. But a bit more sluggish to turn in. But hey, we all want a race car on the road right, so must run race car settings.

I've not head, or experienced bad handling from a 5, other than due to a poor geo. The car is very susceptible to alignment issues. Mine was out when I got it, and it was noticeable. But was fine after a geo.
Let's not forget, this is a car that was a second quicker around Tsukuba than a DC2? Yet now it supposedly never handled well, and has handling issues?

I suppose root cause, is well meaning, but ill informed / educated owners. Changing things, not fully realising what they are effecting. Or asking for a very generic frsu, that doesn't suit everyone's driving style or handling preference.
That, and using places that think it's Ok to geo a car, and toe 5 out between sides?! I'm only running 5 toe in per side in the rear. That's like having 0 and 5, and expecting it to drive nice.
I think the example posted was like triple the toe one side than the other?!

This is a very well designed car, with room for improvement. But Honda know more than any of us here, about geo, suspension, and certainly have a larger budget to test and fine tune the car for release. Yet the normal mentality is a set of lowering springs, and you've become an engineering guru. Yet just undone half of what Honda spent years, and £££s putting in place.

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[Kenz]

Can anyone make any sense of my geo set up that was done at automek? I've not had the car long but it feels erratic under acceleration. It's lowered on eibach pro springs and camber arms.

It's over 2 years old now and I'm going to book it on to grinspeed in a few weeks to have it re freshed. Is the set up I've posted any good or should I start a fresh? Thanks.




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[Crazylegs]

Most oem cars toe in on the front, it's the safest most stable setting.
Everyone running crazy geos, and wondering why the car drives like excrement.
Zero toe, is not ideal for a road car. As you accelerate, the wheels naturally toe out. So starting at zero, you are asking for problem's.
Track cars, when they say are set for zero toe, is likely at a given speed. So they are set to have little to zero toe @ 80 mph or something. Zero toe gives less straight line stability, makes the car easier to turn in, and much more susceptible to steering inputs.
Which is not what you want if it's a road car, or if it's not your preferred handling trait.
Toe in will make the car feel more stable and planted. But a bit more sluggish to turn in. But hey, we all want a race car on the road right, so must run race car settings.

I've not head, or experienced bad handling from a 5, other than due to a poor geo. The car is very susceptible to alignment issues. Mine was out when I got it, and it was noticeable. But was fine after a geo.
Let's not forget, this is a car that was a second quicker around Tsukuba than a DC2? Yet now it supposedly never handled well, and has handling issues?

I suppose root cause, is well meaning, but ill informed / educated owners. Changing things, not fully realising what they are effecting. Or asking for a very generic frsu, that doesn't suit everyone's driving style or handling preference.
That, and using places that think it's Ok to geo a car, and toe 5 out between sides?! I'm only running 5 toe in per side in the rear. That's like having 0 and 5, and expecting it to drive nice.
I think the example posted was like triple the toe one side than the other?!

This is a very well designed car, with room for improvement. But Honda know more than any of us here, about geo, suspension, and certainly have a larger budget to test and fine tune the car for release. Yet the normal mentality is a set of lowering springs, and you've become an engineering guru. Yet just undone half of what Honda spent years, and £££s putting in place.

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Good post.

I'd like to drive one on an OEM suspension to see how it's set up.

I've asked this before, mine is set to 1.4 on the front and 1.8 on the back whatever that means. So does that mean it has 1.4 toe on the front?

The reason I ask is the car handles and feels all over the place which would echo your comments above if it had an aggressive geometry setup, which I don't believe it does.

 

[Rom]

That's probably total toe of 1.4mm I'd guess, 0.7 a side.
Either measured in mm or degrees and minutes. Mine I posted is minutes.
Postitve toe is toe in, negative toe is toe out.
So if it's toe in, 0.7mm per side, it shouldnt feel too bad. It really depends on what your running, camber, castor, parts etc.
It's hard to suggest things without feeling what you mean.
But on mine, with a bad geo, it feels like it wants to dart all left or right when I hit bumps, generally feels unstable, no confidence in its ability etc.

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[Johngreen537]

Can anyone make any sense of my geo set up that was done at automek? I've not had the car long but it feels erratic under acceleration. It's lowered on eibach pro springs and camber arms.

It's over 2 years old now and I'm going to book it on to grinspeed in a few weeks to have it re freshed. Is the set up I've posted any good or should I start a fresh? Thanks.




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You are toe out on front and rear. Only a fraction at 0.1 degrees on each, but that's probably going to make it very twitchy, and it'll probably ttack the road a lot and pull you all over the place.

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[Crazylegs]

That's probably total toe of 1.4mm I'd guess, 0.7 a side.
Either measured in mm or degrees and minutes. Mine I posted is minutes.
Postitve toe is toe in, negative toe is toe out.
So if it's toe in, 0.7mm per side, it shouldnt feel too bad. It really depends on what your running, camber, castor, parts etc.
It's hard to suggest things without feeling what you mean.
But on mine, with a bad geo, it feels like it wants to dart all left or right when I hit bumps, generally feels unstable, no confidence in its ability etc.

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Thanks Chris.

I really should have asked Stevie this question when he set it up. It's interesting as you hear other people swearing that zero toe is the way forward.

Mine feels wayward on a normal stretch of road and not much better on twisties, turn in is also delayed but I think you can only get turn in or the effect of the car turning in before a bend from an aggressive geo so in other words you can't win with any setup you go for ha ha!

 

[Rom]

I'll give mine a few weeks, but initial impressions of zero front toe, I'm not liking so far.

The out on the rear is sketchy generally.

That image above shows positive toe, which is toe in.

There is so much more to geo than camber and toe. Slip angles, bump steer, akerman, scrub radius, toe in under compression e tc

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[mikeyw85]

I'm a bit new to this. I think I got the figures predominantly from EP3 owners.

So basically, for normal(ish) road driving it wants to be pretty neutral, if anything slightly toe in and maybe a fraction more at the rear?

 

[Tiffjordan360]

I live in Bournemouth, can anyone recommend somewhere I can take it to have it done?


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