Fast, but strange corner feel + torque steer

[Tuneboy]

The offset not width

ofc

35mm

 

[SnejVTEC]

ofc

35mm

That's probably the reason for why it feels unstable. The lower the offset, the more you have to fight with the steering wheel.

You should try oem wheels or some wheels with offset closer to oem to feel the difference.

Oem offset is et60 btw.

 

[Tuneboy]

Guys, i figured it out.
Well, actually it was a hint of @dc5mike. I switched the Top-Mounts from left to right and - i still cant believe - the car drive WAY better. Like day and night.
I increased the castor with that and it does looks so wrong when you look at the top-mounts, but in second gear it just pulls straight.

Well, there is still some bumpsteer and all that stuff but alot less and now its actually driveable and enyojable.

So happy with the results!

If you got the same issues, i recommend you just give it a try and change them. Its free so why not give it a go

 

[MilanoChris]

Sounds more of a case that you're masking the original issue rather than a fix to me. A standard car on standard suspension will not behave the way you're describing.

 

[MeisterR]

Guys, i figured it out.
Well, actually it was a hint of @dc5mike. I switched the Top-Mounts from left to right and - i still cant believe - the car drive WAY better. Like day and night.
I increased the castor with that and it does looks so wrong when you look at the top-mounts, but in second gear it just pulls straight.

Well, there is still some bumpsteer and all that stuff but alot less and now its actually driveable and enyojable.

So happy with the results!

If you got the same issues, i recommend you just give it a try and change them. Its free so why not give it a go

Just check in and saw this, good to hear.
Have you done an alignment again, just wondering what is your caster now relative to what you had.

In theory I can do an offset camber top mount for increase caster, but it will limit the camber adjustment range so my not be the best idea.
Got a picture of your current top mount?

Jerrick

 

[spooke]

Just check in and saw this, good to hear.
Have you done an alignment again, just wondering what is your caster now relative to what you had.

In theory I can do an offset camber top mount for increase caster, but it will limit the camber adjustment range so my not be the best idea.
Got a picture of your current top mount?
Jerrick

I would be interested to see a new top mount that has more adjustment, at a guess I'd say this increases caster from say 1.30' to 2.30'/3.00' - haven't actually had it measured though.

Just seen this, woah

 

[MeisterR]

Right now with this setup, you are getting the maximum amount of camber and caster limited by the hole in the turret.
The only way to gain more caster (moving the damper further back) is by cutting the turret out to make room.

It is something that have been done before, just not sure if it is a solution that many of us using road car would feel comfortable with.

Jerrick

 

[Tuneboy]

Just check in and saw this, good to hear.
Have you done an alignment again, just wondering what is your caster now relative to what you had.

In theory I can do an offset camber top mount for increase caster, but it will limit the camber adjustment range so my not be the best idea.
Got a picture of your current top mount?
Jerrick

Yes i have, look here:

I dont have a aligntment done yet, because my gearbox is still out, but will do if everything is running again.

Sounds more of a case that you're masking the original issue rather than a fix to me. A standard car on standard suspension will not behave the way you're describing.

I actually think that you are right. I read some informations about all that suspension thing and i think my offset of -35mm and 2° of camber is making the handling aweful.
Thing is, what are my options? Reducing camber? No, i drive very spirited and track my car regulary. Change rims? No, i like how it looks, plus, i drive OEM rims at the winter and its better, indeed, but not by alot.

So i dont have alot of other options. Increasing the castor dont have downsides, beside the heavier steering but this is fine to me (actually i didnt notice any difference)

 

[CaLi]

not had time to read the whole thread but how are the front drop links?

my car was feeling odd and floaty during cornering, it was noted the front drop links were worn and i had them replaced a few months ago, it made a world of difference and the car now feels planted when cornering at all times.

 

[spooke]

Yes i have, look here:

I dont have a aligntment done yet, because my gearbox is still out, but will do if everything is running again.

I actually think that you are right. I read some informations about all that suspension thing and i think my offset of -35mm and 2° of camber is making the handling aweful.
Thing is, what are my options? Reducing camber? No, i drive very spirited and track my car regulary. Change rims? No, i like how it looks, plus, i drive OEM rims at the winter and its better, indeed, but not by alot.

So i dont have alot of other options. Increasing the castor dont have downsides, beside the heavier steering but this is fine to me (actually i didnt notice any difference)

You should max out the top mount and dial camber back via strut, for max caster angle.

 

[MilanoChris]

I'm not sure it's been mentioned, but Kevin and I have had weirdness with the RS-R tyres, sometimes where no two sets behave exactly the same. Do you have some AD08R or similar to try?

How are you measuring the tyre pressures?

 

[2ndy]

Guys, i figured it out.
Well, actually it was a hint of @dc5mike. I switched the Top-Mounts from left to right and - i still cant believe - the car drive WAY better. Like day and night.
I increased the castor with that and it does looks so wrong when you look at the top-mounts, but in second gear it just pulls straight.

Well, there is still some bumpsteer and all that stuff but alot less and now its actually driveable and enyojable.

So happy with the results!

If you got the same issues, i recommend you just give it a try and change them. Its free so why not give it a go

How much camber did you lose switching the top mounts?

 

[CW05TEG]

Just to add to Chris's comment on tyres, I recently had very similar issues on oem suspension and geo settings with the car bump steering and tramlining uncontrollably over uneven roads. The car has Rays WR17 wheels in the standard 17 x 7j fitment fitted with very worn/cracked AD08s which were giving me vibrations at over 60mph, so the balancing was also clearly out. It was at a point where I would have to back off the throttle over the slightest bumps just to keep it in a straight line.

I just ditched the Advans and fitted a new set of Continental SC3s in 215/45/17 and the bumpsteer has pretty much completely disappeared. The ride is far better and it feels so much better on the local B-roads. Don't get me wrong the AD08s have much stiffer walls and provide more feedback but I'd say the car is actually quicker now simply because I have more confidence the car isn't going to randomly kick itself out of line. I don't track it so this is purely based on mixed slow/fast road driving. I just drove it to North Wales and back with the wife and kids plus luggage and it drove spot on.

It's easy to get lost in a world of alterations from the oem setup but tyres have such an immediate impact on how the car behaves on the road. Perhaps give them a once over and work out if they might be contributing to the problems?

 

[Crazylegs]

Thought I'd add this in here rather than create a new thread.

I've not had the new car long but I've had the opportunity to take it on a few drives on some quiet roads to get a 'feel' for the handling so to speak and it's a bit iffy.

Low speed turn in and immediate turn in is very sharp, far sharper than my old one and the car doesn't seem to roll as much but it is fully polybushed.

Say if you take a really tight left turn the front end kind of comes back on itself and jolts the steering wheel out of your hands - well that's how it feels anyway. It's running Spoon springs, OEM dampers on decent tyres (Goodyear Eagles and Dunlop Sport Maxx). I've not tried the same on a sharp right turn yet but I imagine it's the same.

When you floor it on a straight line and I mean proper floor it up to the redline it tramlines terribly and is all over the place, left, right you name it. It just can't seem to hold a straight line at high speed. Could this be the polybushes that have caused this?

It's going for some camber arms and a geo setup on the 10th so I'm hoping Grinspeed will be able to work their magic. I've seen that the following is a good setup to go for camber wise

Front - 1.5

Rear - 1.3

Or should I just see what Stevie recommends?

Thanks.

 

[Tuneboy]

Well, this happens because the wheeloffset, the lowering and the camber.
Best you can do is to increase your castor. Switching topmounts should do the trick.

For the Camber, you cant change that without topmounts. For the rear you only can change it with your camber arms, -1,3° was right for me with semislicks, with normal UHP you want aim at -1,1, -1,0-ish

 

[MilanoChris]

Well, this happens because the wheeloffset, the lowering and the camber.
Best you can do is to increase your castor. Switching topmounts should do the trick.

For the Camber, you cant change that without topmounts. For the rear you only can change it with your camber arms, -1,3° was right for me with semislicks, with normal UHP you want aim at -1,1, -1,0-ish

You can change the front to about 2 degrees with camber bolts from Eibach.

 

[carl hammond]

I maybe completely wrong here but not only camber related could it not be the Spoon springs on OEM dampers? I have heard that the combo can clunk and knock a bit and if the springs not perfectly seated in the shock then maybe its jumping a bit under lock ?

I have hear similar in the past of the springs jumping a bit and making a nasty knock noise, doesn't happen on mugen shocks due to the size diff in them.

The tramlining I would say is a geo issue and deff camber and geo related.

 

[p1tse]

I use to get random pulling on straights and resolved with shg rack slider for me

 

[Crazylegs]

I maybe completely wrong here but not only camber related could it not be the Spoon springs on OEM dampers? I have heard that the combo can clunk and knock a bit and if the springs not perfectly seated in the shock then maybe its jumping a bit under lock ?

I have hear similar in the past of the springs jumping a bit and making a nasty knock noise, doesn't happen on mugen shocks due to the size diff in them.

The tramlining I would say is a geo issue and deff camber and geo related.

Hmmmmm, I have read that spoon springs can jump and it did kind of feel like that. It happens when you're turning the wheel one way then have to turn direction again quickly, it feels like instead of the wheel travelling back in the same direction, it's actually going in the opposite direction and judders and knocks the wheel out of your hands.

The straight line issue I am confident like you said to be geometry related. I'm just hoping Stevie can sort this as last time I had the blue one done there I came out feeling as though the handling and feel wasn't any different to before. This car is fully superpro bushed so I'm not sure how that will affect things but it certainly feels more rigid and solid than the blue one.