K20A Engine

[ricardoqld]

Question From Oz : The DC5 Type R sold in Oz is a little different to the UK version. I am trying to work out if this is tunning, or whether the engine is different. The engine type fitted to the Oz Type R is a K20A2. The "2" being the potential difference. Can anyone reply with what the engine type is on the UK model (is there a "2") ?

FYI : The OZ version is rev limited to 7900. Has 16" alloys (5 spoke angled for disc cooling). Spec. Power = 148 kw (I suspect given the Vtec power curves the lower power is linked to lower rpm). Otherwise (as far as I can see) it appears to be the same as UK version.

Thanks.
R.

 

[MJ Type-R]

Hi

First off, there is no UK version, we here in the UK import them from Jap, hence they are JDM spec, thus have the K20A engine.

Mike

 

[ricardoqld]

The DC5 Type R sold in Oz (by Honda where I bought mine with 5 kms on the clock) is also imported from Japan (I think Honda in Japan manufacture all type R's, and distribute them globally).

However, the version distributed and sold in Oz is different to that in the UK. I am trying to work out if the difference is purely ECU settings (example the redline is 7,900), or whether there is a genuine difference in the K20A engine (which is a K20A2 engine in OZ). Easy enough to check the compliance plate under the bonnet. Might seem silly, but reading a Honda forum in the USA a while back, saw references been made to K20A3 engine.

It'd be useful to know if there is an engine difference. Honda in Oz are pretty coy about it. They realise they are selling a "lesser" type R down here. However, if the engines are identical, it's a pretty safe bet I can purchase an aftermarket ECU, boost rpm to 8400, and get another 30kw out of it. Hope that makes sense.

Thanks.

 

[Trung]

Apart from EP3R all are made in Japan.
DC5R in UK are UNOFFICIAL imports of the Japanese models with K20A 220ps engine. In Australia you get the specific model to the Australian market with K20A2 engine which is also found in the Acura RSX Type-S and Euro EP3R.
K20A3 are found in Civic Si and Civic Type-S only.

 

[Evs]

As Mike said, there is no UK version of the Integra Type-R, we import the JDM one. :?:

To try to answer your question about K20A2 vs K20A, the K20A2 is the same engine as we get in the UKDM EP3 Civic Type-R and it also appears in the USDM RSX Type-S. AFAIK the block is the same as the K20A but it has a lower compression ratio (about 10.5:1 cf 11.5:1) which I think is achieved by using different pistons. I also think the K20A may have wilder cams than the A2, but I'm not sure.

In short I don't think you'll get K20A power out of your K20A2 just by changing the ECU - the higher CR will definitely be contributing to the power increase. :idea:

The K20A3 is in a lower state of tune again - lower CR, definitely milder cams than the A2.

Lots more info about the K series range of engines here

HTH
Evs

 

[ricardoqld]

Thanks guys. That answers the question completely. Also explains why there is such a difference in power output.

 

[sbm20]

Without reading that link.......quick differences in engine.
1. Different pistons 11.4:1 compared to 11:1
2. Lighter Flywheel 5kgs compared to about 9kgs.
3. Different intake & exhaust camshafts
4. Different ECU (only the tuning)
5. Intake manifold in larger in the internal diameter (4 trumpets)
6. Exhaust is completely different from block to tailpipe.
7. Airbox looks the same but internals reveal a slightly bigger bore.

Thats all I can think of just now!!!!

 

[ricardoqld]

Thanks. That's a pretty comprehensive list to consider too. You're (also)based in Brissy I see ?

I spent the last year searching user groups and technical web sites trying to work out what the difference between the K20A and the A2 were. Trying to account for -30kW. I think the Oz DC5 type R goes like a rocket as it is (best performance with 1/4 tank of Shell Optimax and no passengers). I can only imagine (dream) what another 30kW would feel like

I took my type R in for 18month service on Monday, and the service manager said there was a rumour that the Type R would be dropped all together from the Integra 2005 line up in Australia next year. Hope not !

He also said to me that if I crave for the missing 30kW I might be better off with an aftermarket turbo or compressor, rather than trying to turn the K20A2 into a K20A. I can see now, from the extensive list of differences you have quoted, that he'd probably be right.

I am curious though. Have you modified an Oz version DC5 ? If you have, what can you recommend ?

Cheers

R.

 

[T666YPR]

I took my type R in for 18month service on Monday, and the service manager said there was a rumour that the Type R would be dropped all together from the Integra 2005 line up in Australia next year. Hope not !

Then you might want to read THIS

 

[sbm20]

Yeah, i've done a few mods, but more along the lines of suspension, brakes, wheels, tyres. She has an exhaust & intake as well. I tell u what tho......I'm 2.5seconds quicker than the quickest M3 at Morgan Park & about a second quicker at QR!!!
I work at BMW in the valley but wouldn't swap my DC5 for quids!!!

 

[ricardoqld]

Nice to hear the DC5 stacks up well against the BMW's. What mods have you made to the intake ? I have seen a few different cold intake systems on the market.

Thanks to your info, I decided that mod-wise, the Oz DC5 version is probably closest to the Acura RSX-s. So I went looking through clubrsx.com, and came across the full range of components which basically convert the K20A2 to a K20A (seems to be a popular passtime in the US). Not as expensive as I thought they would be. Probably still allot cheaper than a supercharger+ECU upgrade. Looks like Honda USA market pretty much the same car over there (RSX-s) as Honda Oz do (type R). Neither as fortunate as the UK seems to have been, getting a REAL type R

I also visited the temple of Vtec (vtec.net) along the way, and saw the photos and a full driving test review of the 2005 model RSX-s (which appart from engine and exhaust, is probably what next year's type R will look like). I have to admit, I am really glad that body wise it looks very similar to the current model (the front air scoop is a little rounder and different, and the tail lights are now red and white only - getting the Mazda 6 treatment - though the shape of the tail lights seems to be the same.

The instrument console has changed. An improvement I think. The instruments themselves are still that grey carbon fibre look colour, but instead of being raised, they are now slightly sunk into the panel, and have a detail ring around them. A less chunky look.

Cheers

R.

 

[T666YPR]

Looks like Honda USA market pretty much the same car over there (RSX-s) as Honda Oz do (type R). Neither as fortunate as the UK seems to have been, getting a REAL type R

Can I say again:

THE UK DOES NOT GET THE RSX OR INTEGRA;NO UK TYPE R!!

 

[ricardoqld]

OK then. This one's for T666YPR...

I have another question for you.... Is the spedometer on the Type R sold in the UK marked in miles/hour, km's/hour, or both ???

Is the Odometer in miles or Km ?

If you tell me there is no mention of miles, anywhere on the instrument console, on the Type R sold in the UK, I will believe Honda perform zero country specific configuration to the DC5 Type R sold in the UK.

Of course this means your owner's manual must be writen in Japanese characters too Mine's writen only in English.

My point: To a lesser, or greater degree. Country specific configuration is normal. That they went totally overboard with the Type R sold in Oz, is an extreme case (bit like selling a Ferrari with a 4 cyl engine).

BTW. To all you guys who contributed to answering my question about the engine differences : thanks !

Cheers

R.

 

[M9 JOC]

Hey
Mine only has Kmh's
But as stated above we all in the UK have to import them dude.
Not 1 typeR to my knowledge is an official honda import here.

In away im glad because it feels good having a rare car although we will have to wait and see how long that lasts.

So they all start life the same way

 

[T666YPR]

Ricardoqld

The speedometer comes in Jap spec "kmph";when our car is esva'd they put a piece of black sticky tape over the "k" after it's converted to read "mph"(car is also de-restricted from 112mph)

Japanese manual ;so it's in Japanese

Honda UK don't import these cars;we do
If they did import them they would be less powerfull and slower with UK emission regs(like the JDM DC2 =197bhp UK DC2=187bhp)

We are driving the Japanese car on UK roads;that's it.

Didn't mean to offend,it's just everyone thinks we get it easy in the UK
when in fact we have to try the hardest to get one.


Simon

 

[ricardoqld]

Got It. (yeah, the penny dropped).

Didn't realise import meant "import but not by Honda".
I was watching this forum some time back, and remember a story about a guy who's engine seized (oil problem I think), and took it back to a dealer to get it sorted out. I must have come to the conclusion that this was going back to a Honda dealer, because someone mentioned it being repaired under waranty. But maybe it wasn't a Honda waranty.

With these fully imported type R's, are new brand-spanking-new ? Or used car imports ? Is there a waranty offered ?

They bring allot of used Japanese sports imports into Oz. The bulk of them Skyline, Supra, Silvia, etc. Never seen a non-honda imported Honda though.

My apologies to the other dude. Didn't realise Honda UK had no hand in this.

Sometime down the track (when the warranty is closer to expiry), I'll probably try to tweak the engine up to K20A specs. But for the moment I want to rocket-around a while longer on the 5 year warranty.

Cheers

R.

 

[T666YPR]

They're being imported new and used and some lucky people have managed to get their cars put onto their Honda dealers extended warranty.
Usually you get a warranty with the car but these are generally not worth the paper they are printed on(exclusions and all)

Simon

 

[M9 JOC]

Its harder than hard dude.

p.s didnt realise the car was resticted

How do they change this??

James

 

[T666YPR]

The car is de-ristricted with the same item as the one used to convert to mph.

Hopefully somebody can post what this item is called as I have forgotten

 

[ricardoqld]

Serious ? A speed restriction is put on them in the UK ?

They do that over here, in so much as no car sold in Oz can be capable of more than 250kph (155 mph). Which is bad news for Ferrari and Porsche owners, but of no concern to (most) Integra owners. I say most, because I wouldn't be too suprised if it's been done in a DC5. Seems possible with the gearing, though you'd need allot of hp to push the air out of the way.

I've wound mine up to 215km/hr (133 mph). Very fast getting up to 180km/hr (110mph). But quite slow to get above this. 5th to 6th gear change slows the acceleration right down. Start to run out of of straight road, while you watch the speedo (slowly) inch it's way up !

That was with myOz DC5 though (148 kw, 198 hp, 7,900 rpm redline). With the extra hp and rpm, you guys would probably push beyond this. Though I can't imagine you'd do it on a race track. The auto bahn between Stutgard and Munich might be fun though ! (Got a diesel VW Passat estate up to 200kph on that stretch a few years ago....took forever though !).....hire car

Cheers

R.