Mugen Showa Shocks best with what Springs

beppe786

Beppe
Messages
2,062
blueguy said:
Beppe - As you're only talking about springs, you are overthinking it. There are so many variables to do with suspension. I would stick with the Eibachs all round as they are progressive.

Crazylegs - No. Do a search on progressive springs.
Was thinking if the mugen is stiffer might be even better for traction than changing to eibach springs

Coilovers and anything over 275whp is crap traction ive seen it.. my oem setup was better that why ive opted for mugen shocks..

Might have to try the mugen setup as it is.. then change to eibach springs.. or has anyone tired it on a powerful dc5 and can confirm if traction suffers
 

blueguy

Resident J's whore
Messages
3,785
Beppe said:
Was thinking if the mugen is stiffer might be even better for traction than changing to eibach springs
Coilovers and anything over 275whp is crap traction ive seen it.. my oem setup was better that why ive opted for mugen shocks..
Might have to try the mugen setup as it is.. then change to eibach springs.. or has anyone tired it on a powerful dc5 and can confirm if traction suffers
I'm confused.
You state that if Mugen springs are stiffer than the Eibachs you might get better traction, but then you say coilovers are crap for traction which are usually stiffer.

Are you just looking for traction from a standing start? What were the coilovers with the bad traction and in what scenario and conditions?

Stoo ran that sort of power with Eibach springs and it went well round track. Dave c runs Eibach coilovers with quite a bit more power than that and is very happy with those.
 

beppe786

Beppe
Messages
2,062
I had the eibach pro street coilovers.. traction was horrible.. and in the wet no hope.. the right suspension setup will greatly improved traction so trying to ask if stiffer will help On standstill and overhall.. mine are bone stock now and in dry I have 95% traction. Its great I had a few pm's after posting my video from other charged cars saying how come I have so much traction. Guess what suspension they were running eibach pro street coilovers.. maybe there too stiff causing less traction.. but great on track.. tires play there part but but cant do it alone.. so my thinking was softer front and harder rear suspension.

Gonna have to try it.. out and report back. Might be switching back to oem.

dave c has boost by gear setup now so small to non boost in 1st 2nd gear.. helps his traction. turbo cars can have that setup supercharged cars cant.. but when he didnt have that setup bet it was a handful of wheel spin..
 

blueguy

Resident J's whore
Messages
3,785
I think dave's car stil is a handful in the lower gears lol.

Sorry I should've been clearer/more accurate in my questions. What I meant by traction from a standing start was initial straight line traction compared to corner traction. With that question I had Dave in mind as he still rips up corners (with extra bits) with his setup. I understand where you're going with this now; more of a drag setup, with softer fronts to aid the intial grip and stiffer rears to help minimise the pitching backwards.

Good luck with the testing.
 

Russty

Active Member
Messages
92
Ive got spoon springs on my mugen showa suspension, the height is spot on and handling is good . 😄
 

beppe786

Beppe
Messages
2,062
blueguy said:
I think dave's car stil is a handful in the lower gears lol.

Sorry I should've been clearer/more accurate in my questions. What I meant by traction from a standing start was initial straight line traction compared to corner traction. With that question I had Dave in mind as he still rips up corners (with extra bits) with his setup. I understand where you're going with this now; more of a drag setup, with softer fronts to aid the intial grip and stiffer rears to help minimise the pitching backwards.

Good luck with the testing.
thanks blueguy..

having that setup will help grip every day use as well. no point having 350bhp if you cant get power down
 

Dan34

Advanced Member
Messages
1,176
Beppe said:
love the ride height Gok .. hopefully spoon and eibach have the same drop / handling
They don't in terms of ride height. Eibach's tend to reverse rake in comparison to spoon springs.
 

beppe786

Beppe
Messages
2,062
Dan34 said:
They don't in terms of ride height. Eibach's tend to reverse rake in comparison to spoon springs.
i don't want that i want the front lower than the back.. should help with weight on front wheels

looks like spoon is better then
 

hondamad2204

Advanced Member
Messages
3,832
Beppe said:
i don't want that i want the front lower than the back.. should help with weight on front wheels

looks like spoon is better then
Refer to my first post on your thread mate.... second hand is now the only way for prefacelift Spoon springs. Just dont want you to get your hopes up on getting Spoons and not finding any. And trust me I looked. lol

But yes I prefer the look of the Spoons to the Eibach.
 

beppe786

Beppe
Messages
2,062
Jimmer said:
Refer to my first post on your thread mate.... second hand is now the only way for prefacelift Spoon springs. Just dont want you to get your hopes up on getting Spoons and not finding any. And trust me I looked. lol

But yes I prefer the look of the Spoons to the Eibach.
yeah thanks buddy i saw your post earlier.. ill ask Jono if he can order some in for me from japan..

if no joy anywhere then ill run the mugen as there are.. roads here are smooth like a big race track in Milton Keynes!
 

hondamad2204

Advanced Member
Messages
3,832
I delt with Spoon Sports Europe, in person. He tried all his Japanese suppliers, and type one over there. He said if they couldn't get it, no one can. He then tried a few suppliers in the UK for remaining stocks, and last minute attempts but they have all been snapped up. :( Good luck mate.

I ended up opting for Tein S techs in my moment of desperation as the Spoons had to be sent back. They are stiff yet complaint. , but they too give a nice height. :)

 

beppe786

Beppe
Messages
2,062
Found this interesting.. copied on here for you guys.. hope you guys have a good xmas tomorrow


Rake & Reverse Rake
This is simply the gap & how level the car sits relative to front & back. Rake can only be "measured" by eye, as far as I'm aware, and can only be truly represented when the car is stationary
Zero (no rake) = sitting level
Rake (positive rake) = front lower than rear
Reverse Rake = rear lower than front


Rake (positive rake)
Most cars from factory come like this, especially true in FWD cars. It gives good front-end grip and less chance to lift a front wheel under cornering & acceleration, rear wheel lift under hard cornering to be expected. Negative effect is the rear can get "light" and twitchy under heavy braking


Reverse Rake
Found in some drift cars, this is something to be desired if going for good rear grip. Front turn-in is compromised, but transitions & fast entries become more stable and give ability to drive harder on the throttle on the exit of a drift.




Squat & Anti-Squat
Squat & Anti-Squat are the percentage differences between the front & rear height under braking and acceleration, as weight transfers. For this argument, I will only talk about a car under acceleration. Squat & Anti-squat can be adjusted by damper rates, spring rates, ARB's & roll-center adjustments.
Squat = Rear of car will lean back, accepting the weight transfer and putting more weight over rear wheels
Anti-squat = Rear of car will not lean back as much, less weight will be transferred during acceleration


Squat
Gaining more squat gives the car better traction & grip under acceleration due to more weight being pushed over the back wheels. This gives better rear grip, but front wheels have less traction as weight is removed off them, giving less steering ability on-power.



Anti-Squat
Increasing anti-squat gives the front wheels more chance of traction under acceleration and better on-power steering under hard cornering. The disadvantage is the car will have an increased chance of becoming unstable in the rear, especially in fast & hard cornering due to less weight being transferred to the rear.



---

Rake adjustments & squat adjustments come hand-in-hand when it comes to fine-tuning a car's suspension setup.
 

beppe786

Beppe
Messages
2,062
i found spoon springs one catch.. can only get hold of the rears!!

anyone got front spoon springs?
 

Ben_brodie

Advanced Member
Messages
105
I have a set sitting in my garage, not sure if I really want to sell them though, pm me how much you're looking to pay and I'll have a think about it.
 

Grinch

Active Member
Messages
52
Can somebody show me Spoon Springs RATES???
Only Spoon for ITR DC5 pre-facelift.
I can't find anywhere..
 

Henry

Member
Messages
18
Spring rates are:

Front: 7.4
Rear: 8.2

Even though they are progressive they seem fairly high so I am not sure how the ride quality will be. Harsh and bouncy?
 

Grinch

Active Member
Messages
52
Henry said:
Spring rates are:

Front: 7.4
Rear: 8.2

Even though they are progressive they seem fairly high so I am not sure how the ride quality will be. Harsh and bouncy?
Are you shure? It's too little difference between front and rear rates.
Stock JDM DC5R spring rates: F 3.7k R 7.4k
Mugen SS spring rates: F 5.0k R 8.2k
 

Henry

Member
Messages
18
Grinch said:
Are you shure? It's too little difference between front and rear rates.
Stock JDM DC5R spring rates: F 3.7k R 7.4k
Mugen SS spring rates: F 5.0k R 8.2k
I got this information from Burn Motorsport (Spoon distributor). Yea it does sound a bit odd. What is your current setup right now?
 
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