Daily Drive - Bilstein B16 Coilovers or OEM Springs

[Linus27]

I have an update from Paul, will message you later on.

Excellent, thank you

 

[spooke]

I have had two Evo's, regularly driven a third (with BCs on, which were pretty dire), I also owned an S2000 so I think I have a fair amount of experience behind the wheel of them.


I owned a DC5 with D2 coilover on, and have been out in a few cars with Meister R as well as having driven a DC2 with YellowSpeeds on. From what I understand, they're all pretty much the same and made in the same factory with the same items. Just the branding is different.

Having owned DC5 with such a coilover, and then switching straight away to refreshed OEM dampers and Eibach springs, the quality of the ride and feel of the car was much improved. Actually just had someone message me on Facebook asking if I had my OEM suspension for sale still as he's bought a Teg with Meister R's and can't wait to remove them.

I get that some people just want something firmer or to replace tired OEM items and that's fine. As long as the car is low and doesn't clunk then job achieved. But it's these people who then say yeah the product is amazing on forums where the problem lies. One poster in here said he thought Meister R are a UK brand and they have an excellent reputation. Not really true that is it, but that's the power of sales and forums for you.

Do a search on most people who have changed from the cheaper Taiwanese based brands to something more premium and you will see that the general concencus is that these owners are much, much happier.

All I'll say is ring someone like Tom at TGM, Rich at Performance Autoworks and ask them for their honest opinion.

Now you can go ahead and speak to these specialists but I feel that they will tell you to buy what they are suppliers for or have always used. Also, the majority of these specialists build race cars? Now I know they have a lot of customers who drive their cars daily, but I'm wondering what they drive daily themselves for first hand experience?

From what I've been told by Jerrick, they do not share the same internals and afaik Meister R are a UK company and do have good reputation on Honda/Mazda forums.

 

[MilanoChris]

Now you can go ahead and speak to these specialists but I feel that they will tell you to buy what they are suppliers for or have always used. Also, the majority of these specialists build race cars? Now I know they have a lot of customers who drive their cars daily, but I'm wondering what they drive daily themselves for first hand experience?

From what I've been told by Jerrick, they do not share the same internals and afaik Meister R are a UK company and do have good reputation on Honda/Mazda forums.

Why don't you call the specialists and ask for yourself to see what they supply? I already know. They supply whatever you ask them to. TGM will sell Meister R, as will PA no doubt. They will also sell you Ohlins or Bilstein however the margins on the more expensive items tend to actually be less. That tells quite a story in itself.

The specialists I mention do build race cars but they have to deal with customer cars which are used on the road, day in and day out. You only have to be friends with Paul West on Facebook for a few days to understand the type of crap he has to deal with on an almost daily basis. The guys I use I trust, not because they want to make money out of me (well, they do, they have to live), but because in the long run they actually save me money by suggesting which parts I should get and tell me which I should avoid. I combine this information with extensive searches on K20 org and other busy forums (what else am I meant to do during the day - work? ). These suggestions are not formed based on how much profit they make of the part, they are based on their experiences, day in and day out, of dealing with the majority of aftermarket items which are for sale in the UK. I'm just going through a gearbox build with Rich at PA at the moment via email, and he is actively telling me to get some of the parts myself because, and I quote:

We can supply but shop around yourself first and see what price you can get them for…. Many of the retailers are doing “giveaway” deals that make it cheaper for “Joe Bloggs” to buy from them than their “valued trade customers”

The more expensive Meister R coilovers do not share the same internals as they are modified in the UK after import (the last I knew). There is no evidence to suggest that the cheaper end are any different than the others, though.

 

[Chrismartin]

Why don't you call the specialists and ask for yourself to see what they supply? I already know. They supply whatever you ask them to. TGM will sell Meister R, as will PA no doubt. They will also sell you Ohlins or Bilstein however the margins on the more expensive items tend to actually be less. That tells quite a story in itself.

The specialists I mention do build race cars but they have to deal with customer cars which are used on the road, day in and day out. You only have to be friends with Paul West on Facebook for a few days to understand the type of crap he has to deal with on an almost daily basis. The guys I use I trust, not because they want to make money out of me (well, they do, they have to live), but because in the long run they actually save me money by suggesting which parts I should get and tell me which I should avoid. I combine this information with extensive searches on K20 org and other busy forums (what else am I meant to do during the day - work? ). These suggestions are not formed based on how much profit they make of the part, they are based on their experiences, day in and day out, of dealing with the majority of aftermarket items which are for sale in the UK. I'm just going through a gearbox build with Rich at PA at the moment via email, and he is actively telling me to get some of the parts myself because, and I quote:


The more expensive Meister R coilovers do not share the same internals as they are modified in the UK after import (the last I knew). There is no evidence to suggest that the cheaper end are any different than the others, though.

Good post. Just curious (for my own knowledge) when you mean cheaper Meisters do you mean CRD+ and the more expensive ones the GTIs?

 

[MilanoChris]

Good post. Just curious (for my own knowledge) when you mean cheaper Meisters do you mean CRD+ and the more expensive ones the GTIs?

Cheers. Yeah, that's how I understand it at the moment. The last I knew were that CRD and CRD+ were made in Taiwan and imported, branded in the UK and sold with UK warranty. The GT1 were the same but they are modified in the UK with the help of Black Art Design. I know Jerrick is using Ohlins Road and Track as a design base for the GT1 because simply put they are one of the best coilovers you can get for any car.

 

[Chrismartin]

Cheers. Yeah, that's how I understand it at the moment. The last I knew were that CRD and CRD+ were made in Taiwan and imported, branded in the UK and sold with UK warranty. The GT1 were the same but they are modified in the UK with the help of Black Art Design. I know Jerrick is using Ohlins Road and Track as a design base for the GT1 because simply put they are one of the best coilovers you can get for any car.

Yeah thanks for clearing it up! Yeah in an ideal world we would all be on Ohlins or Nitrons wouldnt we!

But budgets don't allow, well I k ow mine doesn't 😂😂

 

[Liam]

For those who are using Bilstein B16, what sort of prices did you get them supplied at?

 

[MilanoChris]

I had Ohlins on my S2000 and on my Evo - on the road they are a class above any other coilover I've driven on. I was going to buy them for my DC5, but with it being more track focussed Tom at TGM convinced me that B16's would be the better long term option (and cheaper). They don't feel too dissimilar, if I were to criticise then I would say they are a tiny bit firmer on the road and I just wish the damping adjustment feel would be as nice as it is on the Ohlins.

 

[MilanoChris]

For those who are using Bilstein B16, what sort of prices did you get them supplied at?

£1200 or £1250 IIRC.

 

[nsxer]

Nope, had mine on years now with no noises etc. (Spoon) i think they are brilliant! Replaced my shock absorbers with brand new oem last October too, that made a world of difference.

How many miles had your OEM shocks have when you replaced?

Nice to hear the spoons work well with new OEM's ... good to know

 

[TonksyDC5]

Just had a set of B16's fitted to mine on Tom's advice, only driven home in them but they feel much like the eibach coilers that they replaced, which is a good thing.

Will take it for a spirited drive this weekend once all the brakes have bedded in.

Whats the view on adjustment / settings for the road, mine are 5 front and 5 rear at the moment

Mine are set to 2, front and rear. Teg is only a weekend car so don't mind the stiffer setting.

Found 1 (hardest setting) a bit too firm personally.

3 was a good setting, comfort I call it ha ha. Haven't gone any further than that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[adam.]

#1 all year round here, because hero, obviously.

 

[hondamad2204]

How many miles had your OEM shocks have when you replaced?

Nice to hear the spoons work well with new OEM's ... good to know

140,000 miles give or take. The fronts got picked up on the mot with slight misting., but probably would have been ok for another year... I used that as the opportunity to change and refresh to complete my setup. Hehe They lasted well hence why i went back to new OEM. I did consider coilovers but for what i want, and how many miles the old had covered it was enough to make me fit and forget.

 

[AneesR]

I had Ohlins on my S2000 and on my Evo - on the road they are a class above any other coilover I've driven on. I was going to buy them for my DC5, but with it being more track focussed Tom at TGM convinced me that B16's would be the better long term option (and cheaper). They don't feel too dissimilar, if I were to criticise then I would say they are a tiny bit firmer on the road and I just wish the damping adjustment feel would be as nice as it is on the Ohlins.

This thread has got me thinking about suspension and how much of it actually is marketing and forum presence. I thought Meister R were really great based on their presence as a trader - they are on virtually every enthusiasts club. I have read positive posts from forum members that have bought the product, who as you quite rightly say may not be properly qualified or experienced enough to say if the suspension is better. The guys from Meister R seem very active on the forums and know their stuff.

I am lucky enough to have Ohlins Road and Track on both my S2000 and Evo and it truely is awesome suspension - rides bumps really well and never really feels that harsh and the car doesn't skip over B Roads. When I was getting the Ohlins for my Evo I was offered the chance to buy the new (at the time) Meister R GT1 suspension that is based on Ohlins Road and Track but superior. It wasn't much cheaper then the Ohlins so I didn't see the point. Its now available for the DC5 at £1250 which before this thread did get me thinking........

 

[MilanoChris]

I personally feel an awful lot of it is marketing and forum presence. But I wouldn't say GT1's are superior than Ohlins R&T? If that's your budget I would get B16's. I had the same decision and for me there is no contest between GT1 and B16.

 

[MilanoChris]

When I see suspension such as GT1 being used by OEM manufacturers like Bilstein and Ohlins are I may change my opinion on the above. There's so much heritage, pedigree and history with the bigger manufacturers.

 

[MeisterR]

Okay everyone, i been inform of this thread so I am going to chime in, so hold fire for a second as I see the post are flooding in.
I am going to need a little time to explain everything, and it is going to be LONG.

I'll try to put up detail as much as I can, because I do feel that the details are what makes all the difference.

Jerrick

 

[adam.]

When I see suspension such as GT1 being used by OEM manufacturers like Bilstein and Ohlins are I may change my opinion on the above. There's so much heritage, pedigree and history with the bigger manufacturers.

Precisely my thinking.

 

[MeisterR]

MeisterR ZetaCRD Coilovers:

Lets start off with this... So a bunch of Taiwanese build suspension on the market in different colours, what makes MeisterR different?

MeisterR is one of the few suspension provider with a UK technical partnership.
We have Black Art Design who is our in house technical partner, and are responsible for most of our research and development.
Under the roof of MeisterR, we have damper dyno, 3 CNC machine, and a vehicle dynamic engineer with a track record success of providing suspension from OEM application to Pike Peak Race Car.
These wealth of experiences and knowledges are used when developing MeisterR suspension.

The ZetaCRD are different in many ways, because almost all the parts are engineered in the UK.
All of the work are under a non-disclosure clause contract, and that mean what MeisterR provide are unique to MeisterR only.
Even the manufacturer's own product line cannot use our specs, data, or parts.

So here is a few feature of the ZetaCRD coilovers that are different from OTHER coilovers on the market:

1. CRD (Close Ratio Damping):
We have produced a new damper valving design which we call the CRD (Close Ratio Damping).
The CRD is something we engineered in house and it is unique to MeisterR, you will not find it in any other suspension.
BC won't have it, D2 won't have it, YellowSpeed won't have it, HSD won't have it… etc…


Here is a damper dyno sample f the ZetaCRD valving, this was engineered at our UK workshop and dyno was taken in the same place.

What the CRD does is that it keep the compression and rebound ratio close to each other at the full stiff adjustments without going massively over critical rebound damping like you will find on many suspensions on the market.
What this mean is you will have a comfortable ride on softer setting, but the stiffer damper setting will produce better grip as the increase in compression damping force will sharpen the steering response as well as force the tyre to generate more traction.
The rebound force are also kept in check to not go over critical so it will not "jack down" the car.
When suspension is over critical damping, it create unpredictable handling characteristic because the suspension are not allowed to work through it natural frequency.

The CRD keeps the rebound force in check to make sure both compression and rebound are working together to get the most out of the tyres on a specific application.
This is the product of a vehicle dynamic engineer with 20 years of experience to get an entry level suspension perform as best as we possibly can make them.

2. Increase damper shaft diameter:
We increased the damper shaft diameter by 10% to increase strength and side load capacity.
The ZetaCRD will use a 22mm damper shaft on the front and 14mm shaft in the rear on the DC5 coilovers instead of the industry standard 20mm/12.5mm shaft found on many other coilovers.

3. Radial Adjustable Non-Slip (RAN) collars (UK Patent Pending 1517993.0)
To make adjustment easier as well as distinguish MeisterR from other coilovers, we developed a new and unique RAN collar design are non-slip and will allow much higher torque application.
The new collars are forged, and the new C-spanner that work with the collar are all individually laser cut.
As everything had to work within a very close tolerance for the RAN system to work, it isn't something other manufacturer will do simply due to cost.
This is another MeisterR exclusive with a UK Patent currently pending; you will not see the same collar from any other brands in the world.

4. Spring coils isolator:
A new isolator is added to the first coil at the top and the bottom of the springs.
The isolator reduce any possible springs noise as well as help improve durability of the springs.

These are just a few unique feature of the ZetaCRD coilovers that you won't find in say D2 and Yellow Speed.
The ZetaCRD may look similar to all the other coilovers, but the inside is different, and will feel and perform differently.

I know there are going to be lots of "specific" questions about the ZetaCRD coilovers, so please feel free to ask away.
Now that I know about this thread, I am happy to answer these questions because one of the main difference between MeisterR and all the other suspension provider in the UK is that we actually develop our product so we know them inside and out.
You will simply not that level of info regarding suspension because most other provider are only distributor selling suspension provided by a factory with no direct influence to the product specification.
They may make a few small changes for regional preference difference, but nothing in the same league as what I posted above such as the ZetaCRD coilovers.


Jerrick

 

[nsxer]

Very good of you to come on here and explain