Hondata ECU .. Is your car running lean?????

[Unnamed_warrior]

I have been running a few tests at the weekend and notice that my car is running lean.

After speaking to many people about this and with the mods that I have on my car, it looks like I need to get my car remapped with this new Hondata Reprogramable ecu in order to sort out the fuelling..

Now my question is.. how do you know unless you are running standard air filter and exhaust that your car isnt running lean and deting all the time with the Hondata ecu.

What I mean is if you have a Hondata ECU and you have a different CAI and exhaust system and maybe a Throttle body (which will defo be letting in more air so your fuel mix will be different from what the ECU was flashed at) how do you know that your car isn't detting right now and isn't running Lean, which of cause means that something could let go any day now..

So what can you do??.. well you need to get the remapable version and get your car remapped £££££££ more money into someones pocket... :roll: Don't get me wrong.. I know if you mod your car and in order to get the most out of the mods you need to remap ... but why can't I get the Hondata ECU that I already have in my car mapped, instead of having to buy a new flash then get that mapped.. which at the end of the day is going to cost me more cash..

I tried mailing Doug about this leaning problem and have not heard a word from him...

UW

 

[jonster]

Hi UW,

Speaking to Doug when he re-mapped mine I got the impression that his map just change the cam angles and reduced the knock sensor sensitivity. I thought the fuel air map remained the same. I could be completely wrong though.

I'm surprised you are having this problem because I thought you normally mixed in octane additive which should make your fuel less volatile / suseptable to detonation in lean conditions.

I would have thought that ECU should cope with whatever intake you have using the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor and mix the appropriate amount of fuel you need. Maybe your MAF has got a problem or your injectors are dirty. I'm guessing really.

Wait for a Doug answer.

Cheers,

Jon

 

[corbie]

Hi UW

I was reading that some of the civic boys have unichips fitted you can alter the fuel mixture in a 3D map by +-50%. So if your car is running lean you could up the fuel mixture?

They would also map it to all those mods you’ve got. The cost was £300 + VAT for a solder in Unichip, supplied, fitted and mapped and a plug in type for £350 +VAT, which is about the same price as a Hondata.

How do you test if it’s running lean?

Corbie

 

[MJ Type-R]

Hi Mark and others

Please wait before making judgements / statements about Hondata, let Doug reply!! You will not have heard from Doug yet, as he would not have started work at the time you posted this thread!! Remember they are 8 hours behind us!!

I have seen the reply that Doug sent you later on today.

As far as I know the ecu reflash is designed to work best with lightly modified cars CAI etc, but will only every get a max of 80% out of these. To go near to 100% you need to go to the programmable ECU, which has other capabilities as well!!

Mike

 

[Type R - Matt]

How did you test it?

 

[Unnamed_warrior]

Ok I did a Rolling road last wednesday and noticed that my car was running quite under powered 175bhp @ the wheels and 204 BHP overal. So I then went to Toms garage (racing DC5) and we first did a compression test on my engine to ensure that there wasn't any problems .. that was fine.. but he noticed that my sparks plugs where very white and the electro tip was very clean.. which basically means you are running lean.

Yes my plugs are new about 1 month old Iridium Plugs, so I know its not that and the air filter is only 7 months old now.

Now this could be caused by the thottle body pushing in to much air.. I am guessing...

Anyway doug replied to a mail I sent him and said that this was normal and the plugs should be white..

I have to say, the car doesnt feel under powered nor have I noticed any form of knocking or detting, but I find it strange that I am getting such a low RnR reading... Now I know that some rollers read different and you can go somewhere else and my figures might be up blah blah, but even still I find that with all the mods that I have on my car that this is to low a reading..

Anyway tomorrow I am going to CPL Racing, who are a Hondata reseller and we are going to run a few RnR's, check the Co2 levels and check the AFR, then he can compare it to other DC5's and CTR's that he has on his records. We should then be able to tell if my car is running lean or if there is a problem somewhere else..

I may even get a different induction kit and see if that runs better than the mugen.. probably a cold air jobbie that goes in the wing..

So maybe your cars are running fine with Hondata although I was always lead to believe that a car running normal fuelling, the spark plugs should be a biscuit kind of colour not a very light grey and the electro should not be white... but I am not a pro at these things..

John, I do normally run NF Octane Boost as well as Opt. Max, but I ran out about a month ago and haven't used any since then..

Anyway nothing for you other owners to worry about and maybe my car just runs lean because of the stuff I have on it .. I just will have to get the re programmable ecu when it comes out and sort out the fuelling that way, although I still cannot understand how I can be that low on power on the RnR...


UW

 

[Type R - Matt]

I would take RR's with a pinch of salt, there is so many perametres envolved in getting an accurate BHP.

The other thing is you don't need a lot of power to drive past.

 

[Kev]

I was concerned

I was concerned about mines running lean and not running right due to low octane, i thought i was losing bhp beacause of low octane. Ive just raced my brother in his ctr with induction on a straight road and i pulled past him on all three attempts especially after 100mph. So I rekon my bhp is about 20 more than the ctr. "thatl do for me stuff the RR"

 

[Unnamed_warrior]

Ok had the motor checked today by Guy at CPL, nice chap..

Yes i am running a little lean when the Vtec kicks in but it drops away afterwards so nothing to worry about, I used the rest of my octane before I went there and when we checked the spark plugs they looked fine, so basically I will continue to run Octane with Opt. max until I can get the Hondata reprogammable ECU .. he reckons once we lean out the fuel that I will gain a fair bit of WHP..

On his rolls I was getting 187 WHP and 221 BHP which is more like what I expected..

UW

 

[Hatchback Michael]

Mark,

When you go to the RR in March you will have another DC5 to compare to. The data recieved from this will be far more useful than grabbing 200/210/220 figures from the air by running on your own.

Remember - peak figures arent the be all and end all. In fact, many of these sport/race ECUs attempt to ignore the peak figures and optimise driveability in the rest of the rev range. This is what really makes you go faster.

 

[Unnamed_warrior]

Yeah I know, it will be good to go with another DC5 then I can see what its really doing... mind you I was just worried about the fuelling which is why I went to CPL as I am doing a track day this saturday and I wanted to ensure I was alright..

The only thing is I have my car booked in for a service on the 6th so I am hoping they can do it quick so I can get to the RnR.

I have already moved the date twice so I really dont want to move it again, but I would like to do the RnR too..

UW

 

[Hatchback Michael]

Better to be safe than sorry!

Have you seen the times for the RR day?

 

[Unnamed_warrior]

noped haven't even looked at the thread LOL

got a link for me??

 

[Mr_GaBIG]

noped haven't even looked at the thread LOL

got a link for me??

http://forum.hondarevolutions.com/viewtopic.php?t=23582

 

[jonster]

In an ideal world it would be good if we could all stick to one RR. A lot of the dyno runs Trung has on his site, showing various K20A configurations, have been done at Abbey Motorsport who have an excellent DynaPack setup. I hope to get there again after my next mod (probably a GruppeM).

You BHP does seem a bit low to me Mark, considering we have pretty much the same setup. You Mugen intake should be better compared to my stock setup (with Spoon drop-in). Maybe I'm getting a lot from my Mugen cat-back. I got 205 WHP on mine and that was done on quite a hot day last September.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers,

Jon

 

[MJ Type-R]

Jon,

If I am correct, maynot be, that was done at Abbey? It wont be Wheel HP, but Hub HP !!!

If my calcualtion is correct, the difference between hub and wheel is about 25 to 30 HP, so your wheel figure would be 180 at best!!

If I am wrong, then I will shut up

Mike

 

[Unnamed_warrior]

Hello mate .. yes it would be great to get us all down there on the same day... if abbey or CPL will do a (cheaper) fee RnR day for us, I would be prepared to come along..

CPL use Dyno Dynamics as their rollers and his setup is very very good, plus he seems to be prepared to help and talk to you about your car too.. But I have never been to Abbey and I am sure they would be just as helpful.

UW

 

[jonster]

Hi Mike,

I'm no expert but it just seems to make sense to use a system that solves the problem of tire slippage and the inconsistencies of the tire to roller interface. With the Dynapack you get precision and repeatability normally associated with an engine dyno but you account for the drive losses too.

I thought wheel horse power was the term used Doug when he Dyno'ed mine at Abbey and for most of his dyno's on his Hondata site. I'm not 100% though. I haven't thought about the physics too deeply yet.

It just seems a good idea to get consistent test results for comparison before we all blow dosh on upgrades that may give marginal gains.

Jon

 

[jonster]

Hi Mark,

I'll have to check these CPL guys out. Trung mentioned to me that Abbey charge about £50 for a few runs but maybe we can reduce this if we turn up in force.

Cheers,

Jon

 

[Type R - Matt]

If you want a really quick car fit uprated dampers, make more of a difference than haggling over 5-10BHP :idea: You can tell I have learnt from a good sensai (Richard - Steels) :lol:

Ive never really seen the intrest in finding out what power I have got, I understand for Turbo cars its good to get them set up correctly on RR's, but even this can be done on the road if you have a decent ECU set up and Lap top, my old car was mapped in this way and was and is still fantastic. All you acheive is a figure that can change day to day, dependant on conditions.