Hondata ECU .. Is your car running lean?????

[Unnamed_warrior]

Hi John, well if you do fancy going to CPL or Abbey, let me know and I will come with you as we have roughly the same mods, would be interesting to see the difference.

BTW at CPL his Dyno has a outside temp calibation, so he can set the dyno for the weather temp and the dyno takes that into consideration when you are doing your run.. In other words if you go there on a hot day and do a RnR and then go back on a cold day your figures should be the same. Thought that was quite cool

Hi Matt, yeah your right about improving the handling will give us a faster car, same as what Jon said about making it lighter.. I am not really interested in the BHP but more interested in getting my fuelling right..

UW

 

[AndyBITR]

Most dynos do the same, showing you the power on the day, and also give you the normalised power figures at standard temperature and pressure to the DIN standard. :idea:

Th normalised value is the best one to go on for general comparisions. 8)

 

[jonster]

Hi Mark,

Cool. I'll let you know when I next plan to get a RR done. I'd prefer to make it Abbey because I think the Dynapack is the most accurate in the market and the results can be added to Trung's site. I'd like to wait until I get a new intake before going next. Should be in about a month's time.

I persnonally wouldn't change the suspension setup. The car still sticks like glue on the track and has a nice ride on the road. I'm not going to mess with mine anyway.

Cheers,

Jon

 

[Rob-DC2]

heres mine from saturday- http://civicr.fotopic.net/p2927301.html

and a pic of car - http://civicr.fotopic.net/p2927300.html

seems to be down abit maybe aswell


Rob

 

[MJ Type-R]

I will join the club, I was way down on Power yesterday myself :shock: :shock:

Recorded at G-Force a wheel hp of 161.6, which is very low considering what’s on my car now

However, my car with the Hondata ECU (which I know is not too blame before you ask :!: ) was over fuelling at high rpm, thus running rich. This possible shows that the mods I made to the air intake on the Mugen box have not worked :cry: So its time to cut my losses on this front and try a different approach :idea:

I will have to have a close look at the Spoon N1 also, to make sure nothing is amiss with this also :!:

Mike

 

[jonster]

Hi Mike,

Sorry to hear this mate.

What is your full spec. of you setup right now. It's hard to keep track with you these days

It's got to be related to sensors somewhere in your system. Your airflow has got to be better than stock so I guess your mass air flow sensor (MAF) could be getting things wrong and be telling your ECU you are running lean and making it provide more fuel. Similarly if your O2 sensor is saying that there is too much unburnt air in the exhaust, that suggests lean too to the ECU (ie add more fuel in the mix). I'm not sure but I think air/fuel calculations made by the ECU using those sensors is in closed loop mode (constantly self adjusting the mixture). When the throttle is wide open (WOT) I thing the ECU just uses a fixed air/fuel map (open loop mode). I can't see that this map can suddenly be wrong.

Do you mean WOT when you say high RPM?

Doug is your man really. I'm just teaching myself about engines out of a Honda performance tunning book at the moment, hence could be mistaken. Fasinating stuff though.

If you had the programmable Hondata you could datalog all the main sensors to see what's going on. I can't wait for Doug's next visit when he might be selling these units to us. I'm definately interested in one.

Laters,

Jon

 

[ps2london]

If you want a really quick car fit uprated dampers, make more of a difference than haggling over 5-10BHP :idea: You can tell I have learnt from a good sensai (Richard - Steels) :lol:

Ive never really seen the intrest in finding out what power I have got, I understand for Turbo cars its good to get them set up correctly on RR's, but even this can be done on the road if you have a decent ECU set up and Lap top, my old car was mapped in this way and was and is still fantastic. All you acheive is a figure that can change day to day, dependant on conditions.

totally agree with Matt. Number 1 big thing on track.

John, trust me, Spring is not enough of track...... they just like a makeup, look better. becuase the orginal suspenion won't have enough travel with ur lowered spring.

 

[jonster]

Hi Franz,

I'm not convinced yet. I'd like to take a ride as a passenger in yours next time we hit the track to be persuaded (if that's ok with you). I was happy to go with the Spoon progressives to give me the same acceptable ride on the road, plus a bit of a firmer bite for the track and lower the car's centre of gravity. It was a much cheaper option then too.

I've generally heard that adjustable coil-overs just give you a range of very hard ride to super hard. I find if the car's suspension cannot absorb the rough surfaces of English roads if feels like the car destabilizes and I dont' trust the feedback I'm gettting from it. I didn't enjoy my R33 Skyline or Subaru STi 4 Type-R on road because the suspension was too hard. But hey, your the suspension master in the crew. You must think it's worth while to make the same mod twice.

I think improving the engine flow for more power and making it lighter has had a huge effect on the cars performance/handling. I don't regret what I've done, to improve the power to weight ratio, for a moment.

Until the next track day.....

Jon

 

[Trung]

I have to agree with Franz here.
After being in both Franz's and Mark's DC5 number of times I can say coilovers is hell a lot different to uprated springs.
Springs are made for enhancing looks and provide sportier feel but it'll never have the same performance of coilovers.
Im going straight for Tein Flex next and Im sure Mark agrees. :wink:

 

[jonster]

I don't want to hear about another potential £1000+ mod. Stop convincing me!!!!! :?

I was so close to clearing all my credit card this month too.

Jon

 

[Unnamed_warrior]

Sorry Johnster,

But you will have to pay up... I am selling my Spoons and getting TEIN HA,

Spoons are nice and give you that harder feel and good handling but after being out with Franz the car could handle so much better.. but saying that Franz is also a very good driver and knows his car well..

The car is so much better on track with TEIN Dampers, or any dampers I guess..

As for the UK roads... mate don't go racing on the lanes anymore :wink: and just save it for track, so when you are on the roads set it to its softest settings and when on track set it nice and hard..

Thats what I will do

UW

 

[Hatchback Michael]

I will join the club, I was way down on Power yesterday myself :shock: :shock:

Recorded at G-Force a wheel hp of 161.6, which is very low considering what’s on my car now

However, my car with the Hondata ECU (which I know is not too blame before you ask :!: ) was over fuelling at high rpm, thus running rich. This possible shows that the mods I made to the air intake on the Mugen box have not worked :cry: So its time to cut my losses on this front and try a different approach :idea:

I will have to have a close look at the Spoon N1 also, to make sure nothing is amiss with this also :!:

Mike

Time to get rid of the shopping trolley and get a proper car mate :lol:

The mods you have are fine Mike. The problem is - the Hondata is not specifically tuned to your particular car

But that wont matter soon :wink:

*cough* 179 BHP at the wheels *cough* :wink:

 

[jonster]

Hi Mark,

I take your points. And I agree Franz is a good driver. I think I've only managed to pass him in the past because he lets me. I'd love to see these coilovers perform next time at the track. I'm still not sure I'll £1000+ worth of enjoyment out of them.

Mike,

I thought you had a second ECU. Have you tried using this? Or is this in the states right now? I'd stay away from the 95ron Sainsbury's fuel you like to use too. I've never liked supermarket fuel.

I can't believe the Hondata map will make you drop power. It's designed for a good intake so I can't imagine your setup has a problem there. I'm running a stock box with Spoon drop-in and a Mugen twin loop cat-back and you've seen that produce 205BHP at the wheels. I can't imagine your Spoon N1 is giving you problems (ie lack of back pressure). I still think it might be your sensors.

Good luck anyway.

Jon

 

[ps2london]

please don't call me good driver anymore.... i just do more trackday then u guys, know the car abit more... we just can't see the real good driver on normal trackday.... Good driver never tell u they are good if u know what i mean. i am still learning how to driver the car better, i am very lucky at last Sat at Donington trackday, Nana from Option, he drove my car for one section, teach me the line and how to react when the car spin, and show me the limit of the DC5, and i can say i am no where near the limit..... funny Mark thought i was driving, i hope that was me!!!!!

i am very wellcome of any of you jump into my car at trackday, then u will know what the car can handle and understand more of the car..... i took long time to understand the car. because no one show me what the car can handle......

Franz

 

[jonster]

Hail to the track god Franz !!!!

Just kidding dude

I'd like to catch a ride with you next time you're at the track.

I can't believe you want to get Mugen ECU when there is a fully programable Hondata option available. Don't get me wrong, I love Mugen kit, but I can't be as good as mapping for you own setup.

Cheers,

Jon

 

[Trung]

Jonster
You may not know this but Doug mentioned that he programe the Mugen N1 maps into the Hondata K-Pro. Its definately on my list after the Teins but I think I'll do some more track days to get used the car before adding anymore power.

 

[Hatchback Michael]

I can't believe the Hondata map will make you drop power.


Jon

How do you know it lost power? Unless the car was RRed on the same day without the Hondata, you dont know.

For all we know Michael's car may be producing a very healthy figure.

 

[jonster]

Howdy,

I've just read what his post implies ie that his power is down. 161 WHP is pretty low considering how Mike has improved the car's breathing. I don't know why he would have brought the subject up otherwise. He acknowledged the improvement the Hondata gave him originally when he had it done. Maybe I'm missing something here?

I just hope he sorts it out.

Jon

 

[jonster]

Hi Trung,

Do know if Doug will actually do upgrades for us in the UK now or does he want to try things out on the US market first? I've been thinking I should wait until he next comes to the UK to get mine upgraded. Do you know if he has indicated when he is next coming over?

Why do you think his web site mentions 'off road use only' for the K Pro?

Cheers,

Jon

 

[Hatchback Michael]

If the car feels better to drive, what does a few peak figures matter?